Logbook and Logging Hours Questions
Oh what fun, I remember well Bob Pooley complaining about the amount of time and cost he went to in producing his company's JAR-FCL logbook.
Sensible, but one can imagine Pooleys and a few other companies being somewhat peeved after the amount of effort put into complying with what seemed at the time an over-complex but set-in-stone piece of regulation.
G
(Happy user of one of Pooleys original commercial logbooks, and intending to remain so).
Sensible, but one can imagine Pooleys and a few other companies being somewhat peeved after the amount of effort put into complying with what seemed at the time an over-complex but set-in-stone piece of regulation.
G
(Happy user of one of Pooleys original commercial logbooks, and intending to remain so).
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logging sim time as flying hours?
Hi all
I'm doing a MCC course on a type D simulator and wondered about logging the hours! Can you log them as flying hours? I'm a little under 200 and with this course would take me over that saving me needing to hour build further.
Anyone know the rules
I'm doing a MCC course on a type D simulator and wondered about logging the hours! Can you log them as flying hours? I'm a little under 200 and with this course would take me over that saving me needing to hour build further.
Anyone know the rules
If it's an approved sim, you can log them as sim hours (most professional logbooks have a separate section for this). For some qualifications and courses this has validity, for others it doesn't. But the keywords are...
- Separately
- Approved.
G²
- Separately
- Approved.
G²
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caramel
The CAA never used to accept them towards the granting of any licence upgrade (ie CPL to ATPL) and I doubt if that has changed.
It always seemed a little strange to me due to the nature of the sim details, but it's their rulebook!
The CAA never used to accept them towards the granting of any licence upgrade (ie CPL to ATPL) and I doubt if that has changed.
It always seemed a little strange to me due to the nature of the sim details, but it's their rulebook!
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So my sim hours in a A320 go in the same column as my FNPT 2 sim hours as well
I was lead to believe that if the sim was endorsed as a type rating sim you could log the hours as flown?????
This whole thing has me so confused
I was lead to believe that if the sim was endorsed as a type rating sim you could log the hours as flown?????
This whole thing has me so confused
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That`s about the top and bottom of it. You are doing an MCC not a type rating course so they are sim hours in the sim column.
Think you can count up to 100 sim hours for ATPL issue(but don`t quote me on it).
Think you can count up to 100 sim hours for ATPL issue(but don`t quote me on it).
Hours spent in a Synthetic Training Device may be logged as such but may not be counted toward required flight time for the award of a licence.
What you enter into your logbook is entirely up to you, the CAA will not accept your MCC time as counting towards your CPL.
What you enter into your logbook is entirely up to you, the CAA will not accept your MCC time as counting towards your CPL.
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Flight details flown on a "zero flight time" simulator, or level D sim, count according JAA as Real flight hours when doing a type-rating on that type. They should be entered in your logbook as actual flight hours with the comment"level D Simulator" and the sim. identification number.
So the answer is yes, you certainly are allowed to, during type rating training, and at least the German Bundesambt expects you to do so.
So the answer is yes, you certainly are allowed to, during type rating training, and at least the German Bundesambt expects you to do so.
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BUT....I wouldnt use these hours in your total hours when applying for airline jobs!! For applications, they want actual flying hours. This has been debated at length before on here, ill try to find the link unless someone else can beat me to it.
Till then, enjoy the sim, great fun and a great course where there is no pressure in a test. The harder you work learning your bits, the more you will get from this experience!
Till then, enjoy the sim, great fun and a great course where there is no pressure in a test. The harder you work learning your bits, the more you will get from this experience!
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Here is a bit more info on the subject! Hope it helps.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ferrerid=82228
Hi5
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ferrerid=82228
Hi5
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Thanks for your replys I spoke to a caa examiner and he said that you can log the hours as flying if you're doing a type rating course but not for an mcc course because your not qualified which makes sense now.
Oh well off to the states to get the rest of the hours
Just need to work out whether the extra money to fly the A320 sim is worth it over any other 6 axis sim but thats another post
Oh well off to the states to get the rest of the hours
Just need to work out whether the extra money to fly the A320 sim is worth it over any other 6 axis sim but thats another post
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According to JAR-FCL Subpart-G (ATPL Licencing):
JAR-FCL 1.280(a): (quote) An applicant for an ATPL shall have...at least 1500 hours flight time. Of the 1500 hours flight time, up to 100 hours of flight time may have been completed in FS and FNPT of which a maximum of 25 hours may have been completed in FNPT.
FS Definition: Full sized replica of a specific type/make/model etc., and has to have visuals and motion.
FNPT: Generic Flight and Navigation Procedures Trainer. FNPT II has visuals.
cheers
JAR-FCL 1.280(a): (quote) An applicant for an ATPL shall have...at least 1500 hours flight time. Of the 1500 hours flight time, up to 100 hours of flight time may have been completed in FS and FNPT of which a maximum of 25 hours may have been completed in FNPT.
FS Definition: Full sized replica of a specific type/make/model etc., and has to have visuals and motion.
FNPT: Generic Flight and Navigation Procedures Trainer. FNPT II has visuals.
cheers
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I have never logged sim time, and I would look askance at anyone who had, other than in the appropriate 'simulator' section of their logbook - except where it is specifically approved by the CAA/JAA. In all cases of logging simulator time, the fact that it is a synthetic training device must be made clear in the log entry.
Scroggs
Scroggs
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Totally agree with Scroggs and the others who recommend not logging this time as 'flying'. Scroggs has many thousands of hours and I've got a few thousands too, coupled to these some 'few hundred' are in 'full monty' sims (yeah, naked, that's right!) I never considered loggong them as flying time and once you can (ie type rating) there is no need too.
If you have 200hrs and are adding 50 odd on to your total time, which is in simulators, then I think you are doing yourself (potentially) more harm than good. Airlines want to know how many hours you have flown the aeroplane, not how many times you have been re-positioned on an eight mile final to 'just try that again'!!
I sympathize with those of you looking for your first break who have low hours, just remember though that every single commercial pilot currently in an airline job had 200hrs at one point................
Good luck.
PP
If you have 200hrs and are adding 50 odd on to your total time, which is in simulators, then I think you are doing yourself (potentially) more harm than good. Airlines want to know how many hours you have flown the aeroplane, not how many times you have been re-positioned on an eight mile final to 'just try that again'!!
I sympathize with those of you looking for your first break who have low hours, just remember though that every single commercial pilot currently in an airline job had 200hrs at one point................
Good luck.
PP
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I don't want to give the impression that i'm looking at logging sim as actual hours. I've logged my fnpt 2 time in the sim section of my log book. it just come about in a disscussion that in full motion sims you could log hours as 'flying time' and as I was looking at a mcc course who had a 'level D' simulator I thought it just might have saved me more money if it could be done and it would have beefed up that cv a bit more!
No doubt when we get an airline job the hours on the sim won't be as much importance especially when we get to scroggs's stage.
No doubt when we get an airline job the hours on the sim won't be as much importance especially when we get to scroggs's stage.
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Logbook signing
Not anywhere near to getting my ATPL yet, but heard the other day that logbooks need to have every sector signed by the Captain. This true? Or can my company stamp my logbook certifying that all entries are correct?
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Hi er82,
Not a direct answer to your question but here is a recent thread that might interest you. Some of the replies the refer to Captain's signatures.
GP.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=134215
Not a direct answer to your question but here is a recent thread that might interest you. Some of the replies the refer to Captain's signatures.
GP.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=134215
Last edited by Global Pilot; 30th Jun 2004 at 09:21.
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Logging B200 Time
Hiya Guys,
just wondering if anyone could help. I am type rated on the B200 and fly in the right hand seat for a corporate operator. Only trouble is, is that its one of a few that is single crew in the U.K.
I have been logging the time as turbine dual, but I spoke to someone the other who said I can't.
I cannot see why as I am type rated. I have tried the CAA but no reply.
Many Thanks
Hormones
just wondering if anyone could help. I am type rated on the B200 and fly in the right hand seat for a corporate operator. Only trouble is, is that its one of a few that is single crew in the U.K.
I have been logging the time as turbine dual, but I spoke to someone the other who said I can't.
I cannot see why as I am type rated. I have tried the CAA but no reply.
Many Thanks
Hormones
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Is the operation required to be done with 2 crew? The Kingair 200 is a single pilot aircraft as you know, but the operation may dictate 2 pilots. If so, then it's probably P2 or that P1 u/s thing.
I would get a ruling from the CAA.
I would get a ruling from the CAA.
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The AOC [if issued] will specify whether two crew is required for public transport operations. The other issue is whether it will count towards the 500 hours multi-crew time required to unfreeze the JAR-ATPL.
A multi-pilot typed rated ac is required to be on your licence prior to ATPL issue.
A multi-pilot typed rated ac is required to be on your licence prior to ATPL issue.