Cardiff Wales Flying Club (CWFC) Bankrupt

[wonder6969]

Do you think GJ is also reading all these comments?

[traumahawk71]

Hi Charlie Zulu

So whats happen with your Buddy then? At least that what it initially seemed..

Has he lost the plot or is he pretending to be the guy in the film Brewsters Millions. Do remember that one where the Guy has to loose $30,000,000 in a month. Well on the way to achieving that if current opinion is anything to go by.

Wonder what will happen if aircraft owners have to pay the full CAA membership. Will they perhaps start pulling out of the airport and site else where. Perhaps that strip by newport will start having a booming trade.

[Charlie Zulu]

I doubt that he is reading these threads unless...

Over on ukga.com the new company secretary for Cardiff Academy of Aviation, Damian Evans, has made a statement within the Cardiff GA thread.

Doesn't answer many questions but its better than nothing. So maybe he is reading this thread on PPRUNE as well.

For those of you who were CWFC members, I'm sure you have heard the name Damian Evans before... maybe you could find him in the office behind reception now and again?

The airport must get involved with this, indeed I am sure that many a private owner are not happy at all in regards to the situation.

[Charlie Zulu]

Yup you've got it in one Terrahawk.

I'm going to echo your post above, so will probably not bother to type much more in terms of that with the exception of correcting you... isn't it Damian Evans who has been hired? The Damian you mention above is a friend of mine and I'm not using the friend word lightly in this case.

However I am going to respond in regards to your previous question in a post a little earlier in terms of what has happened to my buddy...

Glad to hear that one of the reception staff has got her old job back elsewhere, I'm just hoping for the best in regards to Mel, Debs, Nikki, etc.

Mel and Debs were really the life and soul behind upstairs. Without them is, well I don't know. Who's going to make the bacon sandwiches now? Oh dear, I forgot its going to be a posh steak house so we wouldn't be up there much anyway.

Lets get one thing clear. I only know Gary because the former CFI asked if I could pair up with him whilst he got used to the UK airspace and got a bit more confidence in himself to go off on his own. But I was only a passenger as he was a fully licenced PPL lacking a little bit of confidence in regards to flying in the UK.

Over the couple of months that I was flying with him (as a favour for Tony as he was too busy to fly with him himself) I did get to fly his Robin a few times.

However it was only because he needed to fly off as many of those fifty hours remaining before the annual was due that he threw me his keys and said because I'm doing this as a favour he would return it and as long as I put fuel in it then I could use the aeroplane.

But that is as far as I know him really, ie flying together and down at the club and even then I didn't know him that well.

I really do hope the old and not so old familiar faces of the restaurant / cafe staff and instructors are back at the white building. It would be a very sad day *if* I were to join and they weren't around. I probably would feel as though I had wasted my membership fee on just a plain plastic card to allow me to gain airside.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[seenitallbefore]

the plot thickens the caa are not employing old cwfc staff main man backs this as seen in previous posts . caa needs to make a clean sweep he says. we hear that lee may be taken on ,we now hear that a mr damian evans now is involved with caa, another person involved with cwfc. this is the guy that was hired to sought out the tax bills such as the vat which as been said was the demise of the club. oh and this is the gary jones that was very friendly with the cfi of cwfc perhaps the next name we will see thats invovled with the academy will be a MR AM.

[spitfire747]

Lee - re-employed
Damian - re-employed

Lets hope Gary will soon realise that Mel, Debs, Karen also also the regular faces of Jen one other i cannot remeber name (sorry)
made the club a club, there would always be members sitting upstairs talking about anything and everything..

Mels bacon sarnies were, simply the best..

bring them back


Spit

[Charlie Zulu]

Spitty,

I think you mean Mel's daughter... I can't remember her name either.

Unless you meant the other lady on reception, Nikki.

By the way "Hear Hear"!!!

Charlie Zulu.

[spitfire747]

yes mels daughter but for the life of me i cannot remember her name.. i can see her face..she made me a niec apple crumble last sunday i was there..mmmm or was it debs that made it.. either way both should be back

[flower]

Mel and her colleagues were the lifeblood of the Flying Club, they made everyone feel welcome, the food was yummy. If they are sensible they will bring back them as it will instantly attract former members to come to the club,

[cptkinz]

My understanding of TUPE is that when an exisiting business takes over the business interest then TUPE applies. As CWFC is insolvent then there is no transfer of business at all, in other words TUPE does not apply. Cardiff Academy of Aviation is an entriely new venture, it must be stressed that Cardiff Academy of Aviation have not purchased any business undertaking of CWFC.

not sure about members property, however the clubs assets will more than likley be sold by the insolvency practice to recoup the losses for the creditors. It may be that Cardiff Academy of Aviation have purchased these assets themselves or are storing them for those who have purchased them.

You should really speak to the Insolvency Practice instead of making assumptions as this can often cause people to get the wrong idea.

[cptkinz]

You should all be careful about what you say on these forums. Accusing people etc

Daniel Standon used to work at CWFC as the bookkeeper, so maybe that is the person you are referring to about texting etc Damian Evans worked as a consultant on a set assignment for CWFC for a limited period only. He was never an employee. You should be aware of these facts before making statements on line that are clearly not true. The work undertaken made considerable savings for CWFC tax bill - can't disclose too much due to client confidentiality unless any committee member would like to contact him directly to give there authority to do so via this forum. As far as I am aware, the committee voluntarily wound up the company and not any particular creditor. Therefore to state it is due to the tax due is wholly incorrect. Again people should check their facts first.

Copies of this thread will be stored on my system and viewed periodically. I do hope that you bear in mind that such words may be taken as slander. Advice to bear with CAA and wait for some information about what is happening as opposed to making your own assumptions.

We understand that some of you may be upset by the demise of CWFC but that is in the past. The immediate future is ensuring that GA is maintained at Cardiff and at present, the conduit to do so is Cardiff Academy of Aviation. If you have the interestes of GA at heart, then you will give them a chance.

[valley_boy1]

Maybe Mel should set up a butty wagon in the carpark :-) I for one would travel down, but the you all know just how partial I am for one of her bacon butties.....On a more serious note, main man - I don't really understand how you can come on here suggesting that

The notion that the recent CWFC committee are victims of their inheritance is supported only by those responsible for their being or those who simply know no better.

When you are one of the people who were thrown off the previous comittee and should know how bad things really were (but maybe not - after all, the boss told NOBODY what was really going on). I also wonder why your website, www.cardiffwalesflyingclub.com
which was designed to damage the club over the last couple of years, is still going. Surely, Mark - you have got exactly what you wanted. The club went bankrupt, and most people have lost their jobs. Cheers.

By the way, for anybody viewing that site, Main man, Bobo and Piper are all the same person - surprisingly heartily agreeing with each other.

[cwfc_instructor]

Valley Boy.

I never knew www.cardiffwalesflyingclub.com existed.


However, please can you tell me the purpose of www.cwfc-unofficial.co.uk which was set up and run by the current committee of CWFC??

I eagerly await your reply.

[valley_boy1]

cwfc_instructor, can you please check your link - I have clicked on it, and all I get is "page cannot be displayed"

[Main Man]

Valley_Boy - you do appear to have enjoyed more than your fair share of Mel's bacon butty's in your time, as a doctor I can assure you the forced abstinence wont do you any harm at all.

So are you saying now it was an open discussion forum that saw off CWFC? - yet another interesting theory from one of the now foolish looking lemmings who supported DW & RT in their evil campaign.

We'll add this to the list of some of your accomplices failure theories that have already been published on this thread including that it was -

a) A Vat bill relating to 2001 - 2002
b) The airport rent bill
c) The fuel bill
d) The previous committee having stolen all the money
e) All of the above
f) None of the above
g) Some of the above

Oh and while we're on it did the previous committee do a runner as suggested by TH or were they thrown off as you now suggest.

There is nothing like taking accountability for failure and believe me this is nothing like taking accountability. The current committee have had the best part of 2 years to move things forward and have squandered the opportunity, an apology to the members wouldn't go amiss.

Less than a year ago and having had plenty of time to get their feet under the table the committee went to the membership with a plan that they said would "secure the future of the club". The plan was implemented and still the club failed, I think the members who responded to the call have a right to know what changed between then & now.

Incidentally I am told that the alias's you mention are not one and the same, you have simply theorised this and applied the same pre-publication quality control that we have now come to enjoy from you and your now very foolish looking associates.

[traumahawk71]

Wow some ones really rattled Main Mans Cage.
Is it because for the last two years you've no longer been the MAIN MAN.

You haven't really answered how you viewed trial lessons as assets as i pointed out anyone interested in flying would take the first opportunity they had not wait for a year.

Oh yeah recently the ex club was receiving trail lesson vouchers bought from Hyper Value at £25 for half an hour flight. The very old type vouchers. How did Hyper Value get these vouchers and where were the records for them.

Why did the club subscribe to renting a phone system capable of handling a medium size office (not money well spent there perhaps) especially since the lease was to remain for a number of years.

What did happen to all the aircraft.
Why was the Warrior totally canabalised and left.
There was also a number of tommahawks in the old hangar that had been canablaised one had been stripped down and left it had only had about 4,500 hours use so the frame was of excellent standard.

Surely when fixing aircraft you should be buying new stuff to replace broken parts not stripping off other aircraft. No wonder the fleet got into such a state.
And you say that the fleet was well maintained. This sort of thing only happens when you cannot afford to replace parts.

There are lots of other things that were also inherited but you convienently forgot to mention....

Once the current committee took over members money was still wasted on things such as computerisation and flash EXPENSIVE software. this meant that an IT specialist was required from time to time (not cheap if you look at the going rates). Why was it necessary after all the only important things to members was flying. Again maintanence was not a high priorty and things were not readily replaced but patched up until they finally could be patched up no more. Aircraft were left lying on the Apron with tech problems thus not generating any cash. Aircraft were flown but bills not paid in time, so it came as no suprise when the club finally went under. There was a last gasp as some aircraft were hired in and so the members for a brief time were treated to style. Unfortunately Debts continued to increase and it was all too late to reverse the slide of the club.

At the end of the day it is clear that both parties led to the demises of CWFC in some shape or form.

To run a business you need motivation namely Profit and a memeber run club can't provide this for individuals. Its only when you've got lots too loose that you produce your best.

Gary Jones has the opportunity now to run a business and make a profit so lets wish him well and hope that GA will continue at Cardiff for a long time.

[Main Man]

TH 71

Simple really, trial lessons were assets because each one was a potential source of £4000 - £5000 revenue for the club but only if the effort was put in to convert the opportunity.

Aside from this the stats showed that about 20% of trial lessons were never flown at all, amazing but true; Xmas aviator package revenue along with January membership fee revenue was a great source of cashflow during the cash starved winter months; at £80 for 30 Mins there was more margin than the equivalent dual rate even after deduction of sales commission and packaging costs.

I'm struggling to spot the negative here. The fact that some were sold through Hypervalue is something the club was very grateful for at the time, where is the crime that you seem to be implying here. The records were completed and thoroughly audited at the time.

Borrowing parts from other planes going into the winter simply made good cashflow sense at the time.

If I compare the performance of the 2 committees I see one with 7 years of compound growth and growing balance sheet and another that frittered it all away in less than 20 months

We at least agree that a members club with a committee is not a sound basis for a GA organisation, especially if said committee is going to be constrained on every single decision.

I wish CAA well but I sense that some of the attitudes that killed CWFC are already starting to come into play and may well pose a big risk to the new organisation.

[spitfire747]

It's inevitable that things change when an organisation that is a club ceases and a new business takes over.. some may think change is bad.. others change is good.. no one is right or wrong..

Gary is putting alot of time and effort and personal fortune into what he believes will be a viable, healthy and fun place to fly and socialise.

Until CAA is open no one is really qualified to make judgements, as it is all based on rumour and here say..

I wish Gary good luck, he is securing GA in Cardiff for the forseeable future in one guise or another.

We have already heard rumours that the rental rates will be virtually the same as CWFC, which is very reasonable to my local field here in Hampshire, where solo rental for a 18yr old PA28-161 is nearly 145.00 per hour.... ouch !




p.s. i hope it succeeds cos i want my job back !

[oddyfish]

main man

as an accountant I'd like to advise you that trial lessons are liabilities and not assets.

You've taken the cash and at some point in the future you have to provide a service , that is, you have to honour a trial lesson. Therefore you have to provide for the cost that will be incurred. This simple accrual concept was never adopted by CWFC - by my knowledge wasn't even adopted in the financial statements,

Now the last CWFC committee had to honour considerable trial lessons even though the cash had been spent by the previous committee.

To state they ruined the club is wholly incorrect. Yes things could have been done differently but hindsight is a wonderful science isn't it. Simply the last committee of CWFC were left with a legacy of mounting problems that were not evidenced within the accounts.

Remember that CWFC did not have to produce a cash flow statement as per the Companys Act 1985 (1989) although for a members club this should have been of paraount importance so members could see where exactly the money was being spent. Just because you make a profit doesn't mean you have cash in the bank.



There were bad trading conditions in the last year, The last committee did work at resolving the problems with some degree of success - although not enough evidently. However as mentioned the legacy of the previous committees actions did result in a debt burden that was just far too great to overcome.

All in all a shame but now Cardiff has a new Academy and if you all want GA to succeed then you should stop all this petty bickering and politics and accept that times have changed, those who had control previously carry no further influence other than they can help ensure GA survives at Cardiff by backing this new venture.

After reading these posts I do wonder if the majority on here really want GA at Cardiff, they just appear to be after furthering there own agenda.

Kind Regards

Oddyfish

[cwfc_instructor]

oddyfish, you say:

you should stop all this petty bickering

What a comment to make after 4 paragraphs of bickering! Hypocrite.



You also say:

After reading these posts I do wonder if the majority on here really want GA at Cardiff

It's not that the majority on here dont want GA at Cardiff. The fact is the "new" GA at Cardiff doesn't want the majority of us!