What aircraft should I buy?
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I saw a nice C150 Aerobat at Falcon Field in Arizona, lovely nick, could probably have used two newer radios though. $12,000 US, being sold as the old boy who owned it had just died.....Lovely plane though, almost bought it on my Credit card, [worrying how to pay it off later 
]. Wish I had.....
EA
]. Wish I had.....EA
Whirly - I see from your last post you mentioned a Rallye. I owned a share of one once. They are great aircraft - strong, excellent short field performance, easy to fly, have a good useful load, have a stick and a throttle for your left hand (the way God intended pilots to fly!) great visibility and if you get a ST, aerobatic! But they are cheap for a reason. They were built in the south of France and if you take them north of 50N they corrode. On a quite day, I swear you could hear the thing rotting!
If you are tempted, get a very thorough check done by an engineer and keep it hangared.
If you are tempted, get a very thorough check done by an engineer and keep it hangared.
Whirly as QDM x 3 says, fabric covered aircraft can live outside for extended periods if necessary but it does increase the maintenance in our damp climate. I know of a beautifully restored L4 Cub that lives outside at an airfield near Oslo that only has a cover over the cockpit and the wooden prop. Their climate is a lot drier than ours though. Also it might have been like my Cub and had an aluminium main spar in the wing.
When Austers and Tiger Moths were the mainstay of of the British flying training industry (late 1940's to early 1960's), most of them lived outside with just covers over the cockpits. Seeing how many of these aircraft have survived into the 21st Century it can't have done that much damage. An Auster covered with modern non-absorbent fabric (Ceconite or Diatex) and good paint (ie: not cracked or holed) is more than capable of being left outside for a few days without damage.
When Austers and Tiger Moths were the mainstay of of the British flying training industry (late 1940's to early 1960's), most of them lived outside with just covers over the cockpits. Seeing how many of these aircraft have survived into the 21st Century it can't have done that much damage. An Auster covered with modern non-absorbent fabric (Ceconite or Diatex) and good paint (ie: not cracked or holed) is more than capable of being left outside for a few days without damage.
The Original Whirly
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Oooo, this is getting exciting! I think I need to go do a tailwheel conversion to make sure I can fly the things without achieving a world record for how long it takes me. I 'd better also make sure I don't need a whole car bootful of cushions to be able to see and reach the pedals - yes, I know you're not supposed to see in a taildragger, but most of them were made for people bigger than me. Ditto for prop swinging. Then I'll start thinking seriously about what to get.
I'm still considering being sensible and buying a share in something comfortable for touring, or maybe buying a share and then getting a cheap single seater too (probably microlight) - would work out cheaper doing both of those than buying any of the types mentioned above. But then I look at pictures of Austers and Jodels and Luscombes and Aeroncas and so on....and remember flying to Sherburn...LowNSlow, I think I blame you for my sudden fascination with old and interesting aircraft. You make them look so damned easy to fly too.
I'm still considering being sensible and buying a share in something comfortable for touring, or maybe buying a share and then getting a cheap single seater too (probably microlight) - would work out cheaper doing both of those than buying any of the types mentioned above. But then I look at pictures of Austers and Jodels and Luscombes and Aeroncas and so on....and remember flying to Sherburn...LowNSlow, I think I blame you for my sudden fascination with old and interesting aircraft. You make them look so damned easy to fly too.
Thanks for the cpmpliment Whirly but it's cos Cubs and Austers are easy to fly, they are just a bit different in the take off and landing phase (especially the Auster)........
Regarding the hand starting, I put the prop up high to start cos I'm fairly tall, it can be positioned lower and it doesn't need that much of a flick. I saw a guy at Popham pulling the lower blade through rather than heaving down on the upper blade as I do.
That Aeronca Chief looks lovely and you can see over the nose when taxiing plus they are one of the most docile taildraggers to land (so I've been told). They are also about 10 mph faster than a Cub of the same horsepower. Seeing as this one is an 85hp engine, it might have the electric self commencer fitted
Regarding the hand starting, I put the prop up high to start cos I'm fairly tall, it can be positioned lower and it doesn't need that much of a flick. I saw a guy at Popham pulling the lower blade through rather than heaving down on the upper blade as I do.
That Aeronca Chief looks lovely and you can see over the nose when taxiing plus they are one of the most docile taildraggers to land (so I've been told). They are also about 10 mph faster than a Cub of the same horsepower. Seeing as this one is an 85hp engine, it might have the electric self commencer fitted
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Aaaaah Condor!
Hi Flying Dutch - I endorse your support of the rodnoC entirely!
Having learned on them in the 70's they do hold a special interest for me. Great little plane, cheap as chips to buy (shhhhhhh! - a well kept secret!)
Love to have a go in it! Maybe we might trade rides in my yellow cabrio??
What reg is your Condor??
VBR
HP
Having learned on them in the 70's they do hold a special interest for me. Great little plane, cheap as chips to buy (shhhhhhh! - a well kept secret!)
Love to have a go in it! Maybe we might trade rides in my yellow cabrio??
What reg is your Condor??
VBR
HP
The Original Whirly
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Slipslider,
Hmmm...just had another look at that picture of the Aeronca...it's really nice...
But...it's too expensive...I ought to do a tailwheel conversion first....this is next year's project...I ought to think about it some more...a share or starting a group would be more sensible...
But I do like it. Could you let me have some more details please. After all, thinking and looking is free.
Oh no, how often have I said that about something to do with aviation?!!!!!
Hmmm...just had another look at that picture of the Aeronca...it's really nice...
But...it's too expensive...I ought to do a tailwheel conversion first....this is next year's project...I ought to think about it some more...a share or starting a group would be more sensible...
But I do like it. Could you let me have some more details please. After all, thinking and looking is free.
Oh no, how often have I said that about something to do with aviation?!!!!!
The Original Whirly
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Just been having a look at some info on the Kitfox, and been reading the recent thread on it here. Seems to be cheaper than most of the aircraft mentioned above, and similar sort of performance as far as I can tell. Any comments anyone?
I'm getting organised to do a taildragger conversion!
I'm getting organised to do a taildragger conversion!
Whirly,
Kitfox G-LOST is for sale at Perth
£10K no offers I think the notice said.
It's in the back of the hangar with a sheen of dust, just behind myP47 ...
Search here for the owner.
It shouldn't require a lot of work to get its permit renewed...tyres pumped up, that sort of thing.
If you want the phone no. send a PM
Russell
p.s. going to visit that Sea Fury project next week
p.s.2 You've got the message - if you absolutely must stoop to fixed wing then tailwheels are the way ahead.
Kitfox G-LOST is for sale at Perth
£10K no offers I think the notice said.
It's in the back of the hangar with a sheen of dust, just behind myP47 ...
Search here for the owner.
It shouldn't require a lot of work to get its permit renewed...tyres pumped up, that sort of thing.
If you want the phone no. send a PM
Russell
p.s. going to visit that Sea Fury project next week
p.s.2 You've got the message - if you absolutely must stoop to fixed wing then tailwheels are the way ahead.
The Kitfox and the very similar Avid usually have Rotax 2-stroke engines. Some love them, some loath them. They do need more regular overhauls than a Lycoming or Continental but are considerably cheaper to buy / maintain / operate. Also they run on unleaded rather than the expensive (and possibly unobtainable in the not too distant future) 100LL AvGas. Apparently they do not like being left un-run for extended periods of time. Neither do "conventional" aero engines really but 2-strokes are prone to bearing corrosion??? Any comments on that any of you oil burners out there
I'm still toying with the idea of getting an Avid as the wings fold (as do the Kitfoxe's) and you can then tow it home. Hangerage has got VERY expensive where I keep the Auster at the moment...
I'm still toying with the idea of getting an Avid as the wings fold (as do the Kitfoxe's) and you can then tow it home. Hangerage has got VERY expensive where I keep the Auster at the moment...
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Whirly, apologies for delayed response - ridiculous work hours last week then away flying in France at the weekend. What can I tell you about the Aeronca Chief? Well, firstly I should clarify that I'm not the seller of the aeroplane to which I posted the link, I'm perfectly happy with our Champ! I just think that particular example of the Chief is rather nice.....
The 65 hp Chief cruises around 80 to 85 mph, so its not fast. However, you do get to enjoy the view for longer! It uses about 3.5 gph and with maximum fuel load 18 galls has an absolute endurance of around 5 hours. 6 galls of the fuel is behind the seat, and has to be deducted from the generous max 70 lbs luggage load that can be carried there if no fuel in the rear tank. With 2 pob then fuel and luggage have to be traded off to stay within max auw, and so endurance is clearly reduced to somewhere around the 200 mile mark.
The Champ has tandem seats (P1 from the front, but only 40lbs luggage as it is further aft) and has incredible visibility to the sides and its also good over the nose, with a deep cabin, while the Chief is side-by-side which is more friendly - however, as a consequence the view out of the Chief is certainly not as good as the Champ. You sit nearer the wing in the Chief, and lower to the engine.
While the Champ has a stick, the Chief has a yoke, albeit a very '40s version in a very contemporary panel, which I happen to like. The stick is great to fly with, but does get in the way of the map sometimes. This is the Chief's panel :
http://www.aeronca.co.uk/grafix/pics/butf3.htm
Both Champ and Chief have light and effective rudder and elevators, but heavier ailerons. Take-off roll is quite short thanks to the long wings, but climb rate at max auw on 65 hp is fairly .... gentle. The 85 hp version like the example advertised is much better in both take-off roll and the climb.
Champs and Chiefs have oleo undercarriage which is less taxing than the rubber bungees fitted to many classic aircraft.
As an example of practicality, this weekend the Aeronca Club had a fly-out to France (a truly memorable weekend, but thats another story). Taking part were 4 Chiefs, 2 Champs and a Decathlon. Furthest home bases were Cornwall, Wales and Norfolk. For the 2-up Chiefs and Champs with camping gear, the longest legs were just under 2 hours. The longest leg I flew (solo with camping kit) was 2h 20m chock-to-chock from Goodwood to Abbeville, crossing Folkestone to Cap Gris Nez, in an 85hp Champ with 16 galls fuel, of which I used 8.6 galls. At the moment we use 100LL Avgas, but Aeroncas are approved for Unleaded mogas.
I hope this is not a too long or boring post, and that it covers what you wanted to know. The next Aeronca club fly-out is 20 Sept to Caernarfon which I think is near to you. If you can make it there, I'm sure a flight could be arranged!
Slip
BTW Whirly: "its too expensive" .... not if you share !!
The 65 hp Chief cruises around 80 to 85 mph, so its not fast. However, you do get to enjoy the view for longer! It uses about 3.5 gph and with maximum fuel load 18 galls has an absolute endurance of around 5 hours. 6 galls of the fuel is behind the seat, and has to be deducted from the generous max 70 lbs luggage load that can be carried there if no fuel in the rear tank. With 2 pob then fuel and luggage have to be traded off to stay within max auw, and so endurance is clearly reduced to somewhere around the 200 mile mark.
The Champ has tandem seats (P1 from the front, but only 40lbs luggage as it is further aft) and has incredible visibility to the sides and its also good over the nose, with a deep cabin, while the Chief is side-by-side which is more friendly - however, as a consequence the view out of the Chief is certainly not as good as the Champ. You sit nearer the wing in the Chief, and lower to the engine.
While the Champ has a stick, the Chief has a yoke, albeit a very '40s version in a very contemporary panel, which I happen to like. The stick is great to fly with, but does get in the way of the map sometimes. This is the Chief's panel :
http://www.aeronca.co.uk/grafix/pics/butf3.htm
Both Champ and Chief have light and effective rudder and elevators, but heavier ailerons. Take-off roll is quite short thanks to the long wings, but climb rate at max auw on 65 hp is fairly .... gentle. The 85 hp version like the example advertised is much better in both take-off roll and the climb.
Champs and Chiefs have oleo undercarriage which is less taxing than the rubber bungees fitted to many classic aircraft.
As an example of practicality, this weekend the Aeronca Club had a fly-out to France (a truly memorable weekend, but thats another story). Taking part were 4 Chiefs, 2 Champs and a Decathlon. Furthest home bases were Cornwall, Wales and Norfolk. For the 2-up Chiefs and Champs with camping gear, the longest legs were just under 2 hours. The longest leg I flew (solo with camping kit) was 2h 20m chock-to-chock from Goodwood to Abbeville, crossing Folkestone to Cap Gris Nez, in an 85hp Champ with 16 galls fuel, of which I used 8.6 galls. At the moment we use 100LL Avgas, but Aeroncas are approved for Unleaded mogas.
I hope this is not a too long or boring post, and that it covers what you wanted to know. The next Aeronca club fly-out is 20 Sept to Caernarfon which I think is near to you. If you can make it there, I'm sure a flight could be arranged!
Slip
BTW Whirly: "its too expensive" .... not if you share !!
The Original Whirly
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Slip,
Many many thanks for that.
But....I've been thinking...and looking around. I'm still pretty rusty on f/w flying, and still unsure what sort of flying I want to do; do I want to fly taildraggers to short strips, get an IMC and tour Europe, or just bore holes in the sky on nice days in something easy and unchallenging, saving the challenges for my true love - helicopters?
While I was considering all this, I found a share in a C150 at my local airfield, with an option to possibly fly a Grumman too. Something I can fly without extra training, no huge capital outlay, no organising and crash course in aircraft rules and admin. So seems like a good stop-gap measure at least. Could be arranged more or less instantly, so I get aircraft availability, and to go to fly-ins, for the rest of this nice summer (it was a nice summer till I made arrrangments to fly anyway
). So, I'm going to see it tomorrow, but my mind's almost definitely made up, at least for now.
But many thanks to you all for the advice and info, which I'm sure will come in useful...next year maybe.
And the prize for "What will Whirly buy" goes to.............
ARIEL!!!
Many many thanks for that.
But....I've been thinking...and looking around. I'm still pretty rusty on f/w flying, and still unsure what sort of flying I want to do; do I want to fly taildraggers to short strips, get an IMC and tour Europe, or just bore holes in the sky on nice days in something easy and unchallenging, saving the challenges for my true love - helicopters?
While I was considering all this, I found a share in a C150 at my local airfield, with an option to possibly fly a Grumman too. Something I can fly without extra training, no huge capital outlay, no organising and crash course in aircraft rules and admin. So seems like a good stop-gap measure at least. Could be arranged more or less instantly, so I get aircraft availability, and to go to fly-ins, for the rest of this nice summer (it was a nice summer till I made arrrangments to fly anyway
). So, I'm going to see it tomorrow, but my mind's almost definitely made up, at least for now.But many thanks to you all for the advice and info, which I'm sure will come in useful...next year maybe.
And the prize for "What will Whirly buy" goes to.............
ARIEL!!!
The Original Whirly
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ariel,
And guess what - the guy organising the group had met you in Bournemouth when you were doing your PPL. Small world, aviation.
And guess what - the guy organising the group had met you in Bournemouth when you were doing your PPL. Small world, aviation.
The Original Whirly
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LownSlow,
She's off on her star annual.
I haven't been able to fly her since Friday....work, and had some mild bug that's going around....and now I can't for ages and ages!! But hopefully to anything after September.
As Genghis said to me, I'm experiencing the delights of ownership - you paid, and it's yours, but it's not available,
She's off on her star annual.
I haven't been able to fly her since Friday....work, and had some mild bug that's going around....and now I can't for ages and ages!! But hopefully to anything after September. As Genghis said to me, I'm experiencing the delights of ownership - you paid, and it's yours, but it's not available,
