London Information
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I would suggest you look for help at this helpful leaflet published by the CAA.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/224/ssl8.pdf
I think that should provide you with a few answers. Far too few people understand the answer to your question so you are not alone.
Charlie.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/224/ssl8.pdf
I think that should provide you with a few answers. Far too few people understand the answer to your question so you are not alone.
Charlie.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
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An unofficial answer from someone who's used both services occassionally, but neither regularly. (However, I know there are controllers who work both services who read these forums and will give a more definitive answer!)
London Information: anything at all that doesn't require radar. Things I've used them for have included: activating a flight plan when my departure airfield has been unattended, information on nearby radar facilities, or informing them that I'm entering/leaving UK airspace. They are also, so I hear, very good at giving out information like frequencies, opening times, fuel availability at airfields if you find yourself needing to divert. Although they don't have radar, they will be able to inform you if the airspace you're flying in is known to be particularly busy. They are also listed as a contact frequency for a DACS for some danger areas (I believe they liase with London Military via a land-line to negotiate the crossing for you).
Thames Radar: apart from clearance to cross their zone, they also provide a very good FIS anywhere to the east or south-east of London. In my experience, the service they provide is generally an unofficial radar service, where they will give you a discreet squawk and also give you radar-derived traffic information. They aren't required to do any of this, and the fact that they do is definitely appreciated, especially since they have good radar coverage of one or two bottleneck areas!
FFF
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London Information: anything at all that doesn't require radar. Things I've used them for have included: activating a flight plan when my departure airfield has been unattended, information on nearby radar facilities, or informing them that I'm entering/leaving UK airspace. They are also, so I hear, very good at giving out information like frequencies, opening times, fuel availability at airfields if you find yourself needing to divert. Although they don't have radar, they will be able to inform you if the airspace you're flying in is known to be particularly busy. They are also listed as a contact frequency for a DACS for some danger areas (I believe they liase with London Military via a land-line to negotiate the crossing for you).
Thames Radar: apart from clearance to cross their zone, they also provide a very good FIS anywhere to the east or south-east of London. In my experience, the service they provide is generally an unofficial radar service, where they will give you a discreet squawk and also give you radar-derived traffic information. They aren't required to do any of this, and the fact that they do is definitely appreciated, especially since they have good radar coverage of one or two bottleneck areas!
FFF
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Join Date: Oct 1999
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To realise what London info can provide it's probably best to understand exactly what they are not and what they are.
It is not loads of people sat round radar screens who can tell you where everyone is. It is not a service which will separate you from everyone who may be near you when you're not in LARS coverage.
London info consists of 2 or 3 staff sat at a desk with a large map of the UK in front of them. Whenever you call they will write down your details on a paper flight strip and put it in front of them with all the rest of the people who call. They will endeavour to give you any information on a flight that is blatantly close to you but that is not their prime job.
Services provided - mainly the following:
Alerting service
If you're flying over a desolate area of the UK (Welsh mountains, English Channel, Irish Sea) where there is no ATC to provide this service then you can scream help and they will give you what they can - having your details will enable them to better inform D&D and any other interested parties. Needless to say every Tom, Dick and Harry who calls them on a summers day when he's tootling around the SE of England and just wants someone to talk to seriously degrades this service.
Flight Information Service
Information pertinent to the safe conduct of flight - danger area activity info, weather information, airfield availability, pressure settings and the like.
Airways joining clearances
Obtaining airways clearances for aircraft operating outsde Controlled Airspace who wish to join the airways system. Coupled with this is the acceptance of airborne flight plans and the activating of flight plans if you haven't managed to do it via an ATC unit.
There are a couple of PPRuNers who work there who can fill in the gaps - but the above are the main reasons for its existance.
It is not loads of people sat round radar screens who can tell you where everyone is. It is not a service which will separate you from everyone who may be near you when you're not in LARS coverage.
London info consists of 2 or 3 staff sat at a desk with a large map of the UK in front of them. Whenever you call they will write down your details on a paper flight strip and put it in front of them with all the rest of the people who call. They will endeavour to give you any information on a flight that is blatantly close to you but that is not their prime job.
Services provided - mainly the following:
Alerting service
If you're flying over a desolate area of the UK (Welsh mountains, English Channel, Irish Sea) where there is no ATC to provide this service then you can scream help and they will give you what they can - having your details will enable them to better inform D&D and any other interested parties. Needless to say every Tom, Dick and Harry who calls them on a summers day when he's tootling around the SE of England and just wants someone to talk to seriously degrades this service.
Flight Information Service
Information pertinent to the safe conduct of flight - danger area activity info, weather information, airfield availability, pressure settings and the like.
Airways joining clearances
Obtaining airways clearances for aircraft operating outsde Controlled Airspace who wish to join the airways system. Coupled with this is the acceptance of airborne flight plans and the activating of flight plans if you haven't managed to do it via an ATC unit.
There are a couple of PPRuNers who work there who can fill in the gaps - but the above are the main reasons for its existance.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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There is a programme of education about the FIS in progress at present. The intention is to publish an article in the popular aviation press giving a plain language idea of how the FIS works. However, as is often the case with large companies, the progress of the article, which was written a few months back, has stalled whilst awaiting approval for publication from the corporate communications department. It is also waiting for the remodelling of the FIS suite to be complete so that photos can be included to show the working environment.
Pending the article, the rough sketch given by CM is about right.
I would only add that if you are looking for traffic information in some of the busier areas of the UK, then local airfields (even A/G only) will often have more meaningful information than will London FIS. This is because only a very small percentage of those people who are out there actually call London FIS.
Pending the article, the rough sketch given by CM is about right.
I would only add that if you are looking for traffic information in some of the busier areas of the UK, then local airfields (even A/G only) will often have more meaningful information than will London FIS. This is because only a very small percentage of those people who are out there actually call London FIS.
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Something else that London Information do for me from time to time is to phone ahead ETAs. This is very useful if you are heading for an airfield that closes at a particular time and you want them to stay open an extra couple of minutes, or if they are going to organise a service for you on arrival (fuel, taxi, whatever)
I very rarely use LI on box 1 as an FIS, but I often ask them things on box 2 that I don't want to bother the airways freq with (getting weather or DA activity for example).
They are invariably friendly, willing and helpful
Thanks guys and gals at LI
I called Sywell in passing the other day, and they replied "we can't possibly know what's out there, you'll just have to keep a lookout."
Nice.
W
I very rarely use LI on box 1 as an FIS, but I often ask them things on box 2 that I don't want to bother the airways freq with (getting weather or DA activity for example).
They are invariably friendly, willing and helpful
Thanks guys and gals at LI
I would only add that if you are looking for traffic information in some of the busier areas of the UK, then local airfields (even A/G only) will often have more meaningful information than will London FIS. This is because only a very small percentage of those people who are out there actually call London FIS.
Nice.
W
Last edited by Timothy; 2nd Aug 2003 at 00:33.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Apa, apo ndi kulikonse!
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Lon Info can of course activate your flight plan etc! (not so easy to do on Thames now not co-located with the LHR FBU)
Anyone been given the new squawk by LI (0027)?? Only seen it on screens once myself. Most important thing to remember is that they do not have a radar. Also it is not run by controllers but by senior assistants as the ERC at Swanwick who do a very good job.
With regards to Thames it very much depends on the workload. As I have said on here before, our good book says our area of responsibility is within the M25 - though everyone if able works tfc way past that! One thing to remember is that Southend are a LARS unit so you can always call them.
The traffic that amazes me is aircraft off Elstree - that call approaching the Lea Valley and routing out to Essex via LAM. Giving that LAM (Stapleford) is normally chocka with returns I will pass you to 122.8 almost straight away and then straight to Soufffend!
stay safe!
Anyone been given the new squawk by LI (0027)?? Only seen it on screens once myself. Most important thing to remember is that they do not have a radar. Also it is not run by controllers but by senior assistants as the ERC at Swanwick who do a very good job.
With regards to Thames it very much depends on the workload. As I have said on here before, our good book says our area of responsibility is within the M25 - though everyone if able works tfc way past that! One thing to remember is that Southend are a LARS unit so you can always call them.
The traffic that amazes me is aircraft off Elstree - that call approaching the Lea Valley and routing out to Essex via LAM. Giving that LAM (Stapleford) is normally chocka with returns I will pass you to 122.8 almost straight away and then straight to Soufffend!
stay safe!
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
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OK, I'll bite.
My tellingbone number is a Sahfen' one, and G-UTSY lives there. We wot lives here sez it's
SAHFEN'
If you go any distance away, you'll get the many dialect versions from such places as Bazldn, Wickfud, Chompsfud, and even Riccabilly - all genuine Essex places (with genuine Essex girls resident), but they don't know how to pronounce or spell Sahfen'.
Mind you, given the standard of literacy out here in the marshes, anything's possible.
My tellingbone number is a Sahfen' one, and G-UTSY lives there. We wot lives here sez it's
SAHFEN'
If you go any distance away, you'll get the many dialect versions from such places as Bazldn, Wickfud, Chompsfud, and even Riccabilly - all genuine Essex places (with genuine Essex girls resident), but they don't know how to pronounce or spell Sahfen'.
Mind you, given the standard of literacy out here in the marshes, anything's possible.
Oops!
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Nah, Keef, you've got it all wrong mate!
SAHFEN' is FAR too gentle. . . One conjures up images of Safron Walden and the like. The ‘r’ in the spelling is essential! Goodness me, what would your ‘flock’ make of such an outrageous suggestion? 12 Hail Mary's at the very least. . . .
SAHFEN' is FAR too gentle. . . One conjures up images of Safron Walden and the like. The ‘r’ in the spelling is essential! Goodness me, what would your ‘flock’ make of such an outrageous suggestion? 12 Hail Mary's at the very least. . . .
TOP TIP:-
Don't bother with any flight planning or research. Just call London Info and ask them for any frequencies or weather you can't be arsed to check before hand. Saves time AND keeps a FISO on his/her toes. (posted a wee bit tongue in cheek late on Friday night - sorry to any FISOs out there )
Don't bother with any flight planning or research. Just call London Info and ask them for any frequencies or weather you can't be arsed to check before hand. Saves time AND keeps a FISO on his/her toes. (posted a wee bit tongue in cheek late on Friday night - sorry to any FISOs out there
)
