Pilot Drop Out Rate
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Sometimes amongst all the words there is suddenly a thread that hits home, and sometimes there are ideas on it that that are really useful.
I stopped flying thirty years ago for lots of reasons, cost, lack of access but particularly for the loss of the social aspect. Now my flying is unbelievably cheap, at leat by UK standards, but some of the other problems remain and here are some ideas to get over that hump. Thank you all.
I stopped flying thirty years ago for lots of reasons, cost, lack of access but particularly for the loss of the social aspect. Now my flying is unbelievably cheap, at leat by UK standards, but some of the other problems remain and here are some ideas to get over that hump. Thank you all.
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28thJuly2001 said: And what is wrong with that? I find a tootle around the local area and some circuits just as much fun now as I did 2 years ago
Nothing wrong with it, 28th. If that's what keeps you and some others happy, that's great. However, I suspect that quite a few new PPLs do fly around the local area in their club two or four seaters for a while, and then get bored with it and eventually give up. Of course, cost can an issue in terms of going further, but there's a whole world away from the local flying area and exploring it by air is what's kept me flying for more than seven years. If I'd not been able to do that, I'd have probably given up... oh, about five years ago!
Andy
Nothing wrong with it, 28th. If that's what keeps you and some others happy, that's great. However, I suspect that quite a few new PPLs do fly around the local area in their club two or four seaters for a while, and then get bored with it and eventually give up. Of course, cost can an issue in terms of going further, but there's a whole world away from the local flying area and exploring it by air is what's kept me flying for more than seven years. If I'd not been able to do that, I'd have probably given up... oh, about five years ago!
Andy
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Barney,
Everyone is underconfident because none of us can afford to fly enough. I have 500+ hours, and i still worry about every little thing, especially if I haven't flown for a while. I worry especially about flying f/w when most of my flying is rotary, and I amaze people sometimes by refusing to fly solo because I don't feel safe. And this is part of the problem - I seem to be one of relatively few people who will talk about these fears. Flying clubs are full of people trying to behave as though they're confident pilots, when actually they're scared ****less...and if they're not, they probably should be. If we all admitted it we'd be more likely to help each other out, it would be easier to ask someone to fly with you for a few circuits, as a safety pilot, or to come on a trip to share the workload. Just what is it about flying that makes people so determined to put on this act of appearing to know it all?
Everyone is underconfident because none of us can afford to fly enough. I have 500+ hours, and i still worry about every little thing, especially if I haven't flown for a while. I worry especially about flying f/w when most of my flying is rotary, and I amaze people sometimes by refusing to fly solo because I don't feel safe. And this is part of the problem - I seem to be one of relatively few people who will talk about these fears. Flying clubs are full of people trying to behave as though they're confident pilots, when actually they're scared ****less...and if they're not, they probably should be. If we all admitted it we'd be more likely to help each other out, it would be easier to ask someone to fly with you for a few circuits, as a safety pilot, or to come on a trip to share the workload. Just what is it about flying that makes people so determined to put on this act of appearing to know it all?
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I agree with the opinion that cost is a major factor why I and I presume other PPL's don't venture far.
I must admit that I sometimes wonder why I spend £100 just to potter about over the Brecon Beacons for the umpteenth time, but then I realise it is because I CAN.
I try to do at least one landaway a month to keep my interest up and fill the rest of my flying 'allowance' with a quick tootle around the local area or a few circuits if the weather is dodgy.
This suits me fine, of course I would love to do a 3 hour cross country and travel further afield but I doubt if Mrs 28th would be happy if I spent £300 on a days flying.
ho hum......
and I didn't win the lottery
my private airfield will have to wait until next week.
28th,,
I must admit that I sometimes wonder why I spend £100 just to potter about over the Brecon Beacons for the umpteenth time, but then I realise it is because I CAN.
I try to do at least one landaway a month to keep my interest up and fill the rest of my flying 'allowance' with a quick tootle around the local area or a few circuits if the weather is dodgy.
This suits me fine, of course I would love to do a 3 hour cross country and travel further afield but I doubt if Mrs 28th would be happy if I spent £300 on a days flying.
ho hum......
and I didn't win the lottery
my private airfield will have to wait until next week.28th,,
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I'm also at that post PPL stage where I've seen all the local area, taken friends and family up, and need to 'spread my wings' as it were. Although I've no thought of giving up, I must admit I looked out the window at the glorious weather we're having at the moment, thought about going flying, and though "No, can't be bothered".
It's been said before, but the main thing that disillusions me is the weather. I can't complain because I knew what to expect - I was under no illusion that the basic PPL would be useful as a tool for getting from A to B. It's just that the thought of going beyond the loca area, getting stuck in weather, screwing up everybody else's flying because the aircraft isn't available, having to stay over in a hotel etc. etc. just put me off. I've no shortage of places I'd like to visit and I'll set off to the airfield with a nice 100-mile long line drawn on the map and end up doing stalls and PFL's in the training area yet again.
I think the answer for me will be to fly abroad more. I just got back from 6 days in SW Florida and it was thouroughly(?) enjoyable. STILL managed to miss a whole days flying due to weather though Next I want to fly in France, Greece etc. etc. but I can't afford it at the moment. Still, it's somthing to look forward to - I lack neither the will nor confidence to do these things so I think it's just a matter of time.
People are right in that the Pprune fly-ins are definatley somthing to look forward to. 5th April is only 7 weeks away
but I can't help but think that the weather might have somthing to say about that day too!
So, in summary, I believe many people must give up because of (a) the weather and (b) the restrictions of hourly aircraft hire. It would be interesting to compare drop-out figures here with other countries.
It's been said before, but the main thing that disillusions me is the weather. I can't complain because I knew what to expect - I was under no illusion that the basic PPL would be useful as a tool for getting from A to B. It's just that the thought of going beyond the loca area, getting stuck in weather, screwing up everybody else's flying because the aircraft isn't available, having to stay over in a hotel etc. etc. just put me off. I've no shortage of places I'd like to visit and I'll set off to the airfield with a nice 100-mile long line drawn on the map and end up doing stalls and PFL's in the training area yet again.
I think the answer for me will be to fly abroad more. I just got back from 6 days in SW Florida and it was thouroughly(?) enjoyable. STILL managed to miss a whole days flying due to weather though
Next I want to fly in France, Greece etc. etc. but I can't afford it at the moment. Still, it's somthing to look forward to - I lack neither the will nor confidence to do these things so I think it's just a matter of time.People are right in that the Pprune fly-ins are definatley somthing to look forward to. 5th April is only 7 weeks away
but I can't help but think that the weather might have somthing to say about that day too!So, in summary, I believe many people must give up because of (a) the weather and (b) the restrictions of hourly aircraft hire. It would be interesting to compare drop-out figures here with other countries.
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Hi Whirls,
Following up on your point concerning confidence.......This is a subject worthy of a separate discussion thread of it's own.
I have always lacked confidence when flying. During my PPL training I thoroughly enjoyed the dual training, but as soon as the solo X-Country phase came along I struggled with the lessons. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on which way you look at it) I can be very stubborn and do not like to be beaten by a challenge, so I continued.
In fact I would say that my worst flying day so far was my 150nm solo X-Country. The route was EGKB DCT EGMD DCT EGKG DCT EGKB. All went well until I arrived back at Biggin whereupon I could not see Kenley and could not see Biggin and was really confused about a jet landing on the ILS. I received a left base join for 03 and could not seem to orientate myself correctly, I could not even convince myself which was my left and right hand! Anyway the ATCO asked me if I was OK to which I said "No I am a tired tyro I cannot see the other traffic and I don't understand your instructions". The pilot of the jet listening to my r/t volunteered to break off his approach and I received almost a talkdown service from APP and then TWR. I didn't get a chance to thank the other pilot.
Nowadays the situation is better, but even now, like you, if I haven't flown for a while I start wondering again. The club I was in were very supportive but the key for me was flying with another newly qualified PPL. Now I have a little over 100hrs and am just beginning to enjoy flying the aircraft that I recently bought a share in. The group is excellent and all the members (6 in total) and really helpful, the majority shareholder/owner has recently had a book published about group ownership that has been reveiwed in AOPA's GA publication.(sorry didn't mean to give a commercial plug!)
I have been a little stubborn and that combined with a little luck in meeting the right people has kept me pushing on to the next lesson and my aim is to become a proficient pilot day, night and IMC by filling the bucket of experience before I empty the bucket of luck!
I am sure there are more PPLs out there who would not admit to being nervous. I am the only one that I have met who does!
Andy
Following up on your point concerning confidence.......This is a subject worthy of a separate discussion thread of it's own.
I have always lacked confidence when flying. During my PPL training I thoroughly enjoyed the dual training, but as soon as the solo X-Country phase came along I struggled with the lessons. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on which way you look at it) I can be very stubborn and do not like to be beaten by a challenge, so I continued.
In fact I would say that my worst flying day so far was my 150nm solo X-Country. The route was EGKB DCT EGMD DCT EGKG DCT EGKB. All went well until I arrived back at Biggin whereupon I could not see Kenley and could not see Biggin and was really confused about a jet landing on the ILS. I received a left base join for 03 and could not seem to orientate myself correctly, I could not even convince myself which was my left and right hand! Anyway the ATCO asked me if I was OK to which I said "No I am a tired tyro I cannot see the other traffic and I don't understand your instructions". The pilot of the jet listening to my r/t volunteered to break off his approach and I received almost a talkdown service from APP and then TWR. I didn't get a chance to thank the other pilot.
Nowadays the situation is better, but even now, like you, if I haven't flown for a while I start wondering again. The club I was in were very supportive but the key for me was flying with another newly qualified PPL. Now I have a little over 100hrs and am just beginning to enjoy flying the aircraft that I recently bought a share in. The group is excellent and all the members (6 in total) and really helpful, the majority shareholder/owner has recently had a book published about group ownership that has been reveiwed in AOPA's GA publication.(sorry didn't mean to give a commercial plug!)
I have been a little stubborn and that combined with a little luck in meeting the right people has kept me pushing on to the next lesson and my aim is to become a proficient pilot day, night and IMC by filling the bucket of experience before I empty the bucket of luck!
I am sure there are more PPLs out there who would not admit to being nervous. I am the only one that I have met who does!
Andy
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Barney,
Interestingly, I'm just about to start a thread about PPLs and confidence.
That 150nm QXC gets to everyone! When I did it - the old CAA one - it was much shorter. A very experienced f/w instructor friend of mine thinks it's far too long, and I agree. You did well to realise you were overloaded (not always easy to recognise) and to admit it to ATC; lots of pilots wouldn't - and they should.
There was a thread on here a while back about being nervous before flying - and a lot of people admitted to it. But these are anonymous forums; less people will admit to it in a club atmosphere. At the risk of being told I'm sexist, I think this is more of a problem for men than women - but aviation is extremely male orientated. I admit when I'm nervous - and I keep getting told I have a confidence problem.
I do, but quite often my nervousness is justified. It's just "not done" to admit it, which I think is wrong.
Anyway, I'll go start that other thread....
Interestingly, I'm just about to start a thread about PPLs and confidence.
That 150nm QXC gets to everyone! When I did it - the old CAA one - it was much shorter. A very experienced f/w instructor friend of mine thinks it's far too long, and I agree. You did well to realise you were overloaded (not always easy to recognise) and to admit it to ATC; lots of pilots wouldn't - and they should.
There was a thread on here a while back about being nervous before flying - and a lot of people admitted to it. But these are anonymous forums; less people will admit to it in a club atmosphere. At the risk of being told I'm sexist, I think this is more of a problem for men than women - but aviation is extremely male orientated. I admit when I'm nervous - and I keep getting told I have a confidence problem.
I do, but quite often my nervousness is justified. It's just "not done" to admit it, which I think is wrong.Anyway, I'll go start that other thread....
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Interesting point about the lack of "club" activities at clubs. I guess I'm lucky in that my club really is a club, they organise regular fly-outs to airfields across the UK and Europe. Some more competitions would be nice, though, I have to admit.
I've never actually done a club fly-out, though - I've never found myself short of places to go. But I do love the fact that I can turn up at the airfield and just hang around in the bar and talk to other pilots doing the same... something which no other "club" I've ever been to seems to have offered. And it's not completely unheard of for people hanging around to offer rides, either...
FFF
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I've never actually done a club fly-out, though - I've never found myself short of places to go. But I do love the fact that I can turn up at the airfield and just hang around in the bar and talk to other pilots doing the same... something which no other "club" I've ever been to seems to have offered. And it's not completely unheard of for people hanging around to offer rides, either...
FFF
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My experience too is that "clubs" are not clubs at all but schools and hire companies for their aircraft.
Would it not be true that if all newly qualified PPL's, and indeed less recently qualified PPL's, were to push the owners of flying clubs to extend their clubs to indeed become clubs, a few owners may actually try to provide more group activities?
If nobody ever bothers to ask, an owner can not necessarily predict that demand.
The thought also occurs to me that we are all so busy rushing around in our busy lives, that we no longer seem to be able to justify spending that extra hour in the clubroom talking to others.... and I'm as guilty as the next on that score.
Would it not be true that if all newly qualified PPL's, and indeed less recently qualified PPL's, were to push the owners of flying clubs to extend their clubs to indeed become clubs, a few owners may actually try to provide more group activities?
If nobody ever bothers to ask, an owner can not necessarily predict that demand.
The thought also occurs to me that we are all so busy rushing around in our busy lives, that we no longer seem to be able to justify spending that extra hour in the clubroom talking to others.... and I'm as guilty as the next on that score.
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There is also a significant drop out rate in the States. Money is less of an issue - though it is all relative - so maybe cost is not so important. There are also a lot more destinations in the States with things to do, and depending on where you live, the weather can be very friendly to VFR pilots. The regulatory system is also very friendly to pilots. Yet the vast majority of people who take that trial lesson do not get to 100 hours.
People drop out after they have soloed as they have reached the goal of flying a plane on their own. Then they drop out because they realise they have to do some work to get their private, and they don't like that. Then when those that continue get their private, they get bored or scare themselves, or just cannot commit the time required to stay safe and current. As I said, most don't get to 100 hours.
IMO, the best way to keep things going is to find a friend who likes to fly with you, preferably a member of the opposite sex who you get on with, and go on trips. Even if it's for breakfast, or more interesting things like camping out to watch meteor showers. Play your cards right and flying small planes can be a good way to obtain such a partner, and if you are that way inclined, to repeat process.
I even hear there is an airport round here where college girls hang out and hitch lifts off those cute unsuspecting pilots
People drop out after they have soloed as they have reached the goal of flying a plane on their own. Then they drop out because they realise they have to do some work to get their private, and they don't like that. Then when those that continue get their private, they get bored or scare themselves, or just cannot commit the time required to stay safe and current. As I said, most don't get to 100 hours.
IMO, the best way to keep things going is to find a friend who likes to fly with you, preferably a member of the opposite sex who you get on with, and go on trips. Even if it's for breakfast, or more interesting things like camping out to watch meteor showers. Play your cards right and flying small planes can be a good way to obtain such a partner, and if you are that way inclined, to repeat process.
I even hear there is an airport round here where college girls hang out and hitch lifts off those cute unsuspecting pilots
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Money seems to be a big factor in drop outs, when clubs are charging £120 for a wrecked PA28 that will just about 2 people off the ground it becomes expensive. It seems shares are the way to go to find yourself a decent aircraft, you know the history of and you dont have to keep looking out of the window to check the wings are still attached.
The cost/requirements of keeping rating current i.e. ME/IR puts people off progressing beyond the PPL.
Another reason I have heard a few people say (and this probably backs up what some on here are saying about more organised activities), but getting a PPL for like getting a driving licence. Once you get it its a novelty and you fly around in circles a bit, after that in becomes like repetively driving round the M25 and you lose interest. If you aren't actually going anywhere for a reason there is no point spending the money, same as you wouldnt just take your car out - there is just no point boring holes in the sky - unless you are really bored that is
I have to say I have never heard anyone give up because they werent confindent with their flying abilities, I knew one guy who dropped out part way through my PPL course for this reason as he put plane into a spin which instructor recovered from I have subsequently heard that he got his confidence back though and now has his PPL.
The cost/requirements of keeping rating current i.e. ME/IR puts people off progressing beyond the PPL.
Another reason I have heard a few people say (and this probably backs up what some on here are saying about more organised activities), but getting a PPL for like getting a driving licence. Once you get it its a novelty and you fly around in circles a bit, after that in becomes like repetively driving round the M25 and you lose interest. If you aren't actually going anywhere for a reason there is no point spending the money, same as you wouldnt just take your car out - there is just no point boring holes in the sky - unless you are really bored that is
I have to say I have never heard anyone give up because they werent confindent with their flying abilities, I knew one guy who dropped out part way through my PPL course for this reason as he put plane into a spin which instructor recovered from I have subsequently heard that he got his confidence back though and now has his PPL.
