NPPL for us all ...
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NPPL for us all ...
Great news-
A new outlet is now available to us all. The NPPL is almost here (July 1 2002) and it will mean that non career PPL(A) pilots will have the choice to stay or move to the NPPL.
Since the medical is signed off by your GP the old and young that don't meet the group A requirement will be able to fly again.
I don't think it's a cheaper way to fly because a hour in the air will cost the same no matter which licence you have.
So lets hear it for this great new oppertunity for us all. !!!!!!
A new outlet is now available to us all. The NPPL is almost here (July 1 2002) and it will mean that non career PPL(A) pilots will have the choice to stay or move to the NPPL.
Since the medical is signed off by your GP the old and young that don't meet the group A requirement will be able to fly again.
I don't think it's a cheaper way to fly because a hour in the air will cost the same no matter which licence you have.
So lets hear it for this great new oppertunity for us all. !!!!!!
Last edited by pjn44; 28th May 2002 at 21:25.
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Not quite 'all'
In fact, a complete waste of time for wannabes as it will fit nowhere in the JAA commercial scheme of thimgs.
edited 'cos this comment was made before this post was moved from wannabes.
However, as an FI I have grave doubts over the value of the NPPL
In fact, a complete waste of time for wannabes as it will fit nowhere in the JAA commercial scheme of thimgs.
edited 'cos this comment was made before this post was moved from wannabes.
However, as an FI I have grave doubts over the value of the NPPL
Last edited by clear prop!!!; 28th May 2002 at 20:45.
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Agreed- NPPL would be a great opportunity ....for a small substandard minority... but a practically useless alternative for anyone serious.
And, as the genius who started this topic worked out, it couldn't be any cheaper to fly with NPPL. It should be more expensive, as the hirers and insurers will be accepting a higher risk, of damage/loss claims, with NPPL pilots.
Also, with the price of a proper PPL course package now under £3k abroad, it will still be much more expensive and take longer to train here, even for an inferior NPPL.
And, as the genius who started this topic worked out, it couldn't be any cheaper to fly with NPPL. It should be more expensive, as the hirers and insurers will be accepting a higher risk, of damage/loss claims, with NPPL pilots.
Also, with the price of a proper PPL course package now under £3k abroad, it will still be much more expensive and take longer to train here, even for an inferior NPPL.
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IMHO the NPPL is not for everyone - but is a step in the right direction for 'fun flyers'. If you think it's a wate of time, wait until you get old and grey, and the blood pressure or whatever is just outside limits for your medical. Would you rather fly under an NPPL or take up gardening and the crossword?
And it should be no less safe. The training hours for the licence are a minimum. If guys don't reach a safe standard, they get more training before they get the qualification. Most will need the same as if they were going for a PPL; as I say, it's not for everyone.
But think where it might lead - fun flying becoming divorced from the neccessary tight regulation covering air transpor. Perhaps the PFA running it instead of CAA, just as the BGA do for gliding.
It can only be a good thing to seperate fun flying from the air transport industry - apart from commercial flying training, it just does not belong there.
SSD
And it should be no less safe. The training hours for the licence are a minimum. If guys don't reach a safe standard, they get more training before they get the qualification. Most will need the same as if they were going for a PPL; as I say, it's not for everyone.
But think where it might lead - fun flying becoming divorced from the neccessary tight regulation covering air transpor. Perhaps the PFA running it instead of CAA, just as the BGA do for gliding.
It can only be a good thing to seperate fun flying from the air transport industry - apart from commercial flying training, it just does not belong there.
SSD
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Is it actually confirmed that the NPPL will be introduced on July 1st? Given that that is only a month away there doesn't seem to have been much official news about it.
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The NPPL is coming - accept it for what it is.
It is designed to appeal to the flyer who has no interest in commercial flying - the admin process will be cheaper and the medical will certainly be a lot cheaper. The previous post about removing the PPL from the tight control of the CAA is absolutely right - we do not belong there.
Notice, I take exception to your remark about "substandard" pilots. In my case I have better eyesight than the average pilot however I can not obtain a class 2 medical because of some arbitrary level which does not exist in the States. Are all American pilots "substandard"?
There certainly is an elitism in private flying!
It is designed to appeal to the flyer who has no interest in commercial flying - the admin process will be cheaper and the medical will certainly be a lot cheaper. The previous post about removing the PPL from the tight control of the CAA is absolutely right - we do not belong there.
Notice, I take exception to your remark about "substandard" pilots. In my case I have better eyesight than the average pilot however I can not obtain a class 2 medical because of some arbitrary level which does not exist in the States. Are all American pilots "substandard"?
There certainly is an elitism in private flying!
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NPPL or FAA PPL?
The other option to the NPPL is to get an FAA PPL. FAA medical standards are lower than JAR thats a fact. If you breath and your heart beats, its very easy to get a class 3 medical. In fact, if you read on the FAA website there is a whole list of ailments which you can have and still fly under medication / treatment.
The advantages? Well, the FAA PPL will allow you to fly a G reg aircraft in the UK, will allow you to fly an N reg aircraft anywhere, will allow you to fly IFR in an N reg anywhere with an FAA IR (if you're so inclined), will allow you to fly abroard etc. Also the FAA medical is valid for 3 years (at least if you're under 40), the FAA PPL is very easy to maintain, you only need a BFR every two years....plus it is a 'proper' ICAO recognised licence.
Cheers
EA
The advantages? Well, the FAA PPL will allow you to fly a G reg aircraft in the UK, will allow you to fly an N reg aircraft anywhere, will allow you to fly IFR in an N reg anywhere with an FAA IR (if you're so inclined), will allow you to fly abroard etc. Also the FAA medical is valid for 3 years (at least if you're under 40), the FAA PPL is very easy to maintain, you only need a BFR every two years....plus it is a 'proper' ICAO recognised licence.
Cheers
EA
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All this carping about “substandard” pilots will soon die down. The NPPL is designed for amateur pilots; let the professionals get on with their ATPL's and leave the rest of us to get on with a bit of fun flying at the weekend.
The restriction on international flight is under discussion at the moment. If it if accepted internationally I would expect most PPL’s will be NPPL’s within a short space of time.
The licence is designed for us, so why would we not want to use it? The training is very similar to that which I did to gain my CAA PPL. Are all CAA PPL’s inferior pilots too? If so, then you JAR trained pilots are in the minority, and are presumably somewhat less experienced than the rest of us.
The restriction on international flight is under discussion at the moment. If it if accepted internationally I would expect most PPL’s will be NPPL’s within a short space of time.
The licence is designed for us, so why would we not want to use it? The training is very similar to that which I did to gain my CAA PPL. Are all CAA PPL’s inferior pilots too? If so, then you JAR trained pilots are in the minority, and are presumably somewhat less experienced than the rest of us.
The latest official news I have had is that because the Privy Council only meet once each month and due to last minute discussions both internally in DTLR and externally, the ANO amendment submission allowing the NPPL to come into being cannot go before Council until 26 June 2002. Consequently, assuming that no-one will "pray against" the ANO amendment (which would be highly unlikely to happen!), legally nothing of the NPPL can come into force until 29 July 2002 due to these parliamentary processes.
So - just a bit more patience please.
There will be an official CAA Press Release on the subject of the NPPL very soon.
.
So - just a bit more patience please.
There will be an official CAA Press Release on the subject of the NPPL very soon.
.
Last edited by BEagle; 30th May 2002 at 07:50.
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The NPPL will not be a lower standard than any other PPL, how can it be? the Skill Test will be conducted by the existing Examiners who will apply exactly the same standard as that required for the old national PPL and now the JAA PPL.
The illusion is that it can be done cheaper or quicker, what takes 55 hours for one system will take 55 hours for the NPPL.
The reductioin in Medical standard is not likely to have any statistical influence on safety.
The daft thing about all of this is that the standards will be the same, the costs will be the same but the privileges will be less (forget overseas, its not an ICAO licence) and the cost of converting it to an ICAO licence will make it a very expensive option.
The cost of administration is probably going to be higher than that for a JAA PPL, the £40 charge by the CAA is only one part of it, the organisation processing the paperwork will have to charge around £120 so expect at least £160 for licence issue.
As the revalidation requirements are likely to be different to JAA requirements the examiners will disappear under a mountain of paperwork, you think JAR was beaurocratic, wait till this lot descends upon you!
The illusion is that it can be done cheaper or quicker, what takes 55 hours for one system will take 55 hours for the NPPL.
The reductioin in Medical standard is not likely to have any statistical influence on safety.
The daft thing about all of this is that the standards will be the same, the costs will be the same but the privileges will be less (forget overseas, its not an ICAO licence) and the cost of converting it to an ICAO licence will make it a very expensive option.
The cost of administration is probably going to be higher than that for a JAA PPL, the £40 charge by the CAA is only one part of it, the organisation processing the paperwork will have to charge around £120 so expect at least £160 for licence issue.
As the revalidation requirements are likely to be different to JAA requirements the examiners will disappear under a mountain of paperwork, you think JAR was beaurocratic, wait till this lot descends upon you!
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I understood the proposal being put forward to remove the overseas restriction was based on the fact that NPPL did qualify as an ICAO licence?
There are supposed to be several other European states looking into similar national licences.
If the International restriction is removed, I would expect the JAR PPL to become irrelevant for the average fun pilot.
There are supposed to be several other European states looking into similar national licences.
If the International restriction is removed, I would expect the JAR PPL to become irrelevant for the average fun pilot.
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SO what we're in fact seeing is an undoing of JAR! We'll be getting a CAA CPL next, closely followed by the UK IR and UK ATPL.....just like it used to be.
Your tax dollars at work.
EA
Your tax dollars at work.
EA
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Just can't see why they didn't apply nppl style medical to the existing ( or God forbid, the perfectly reliable old ) ppl sylabus. Seems to be a whole load of work and regulation for very little benefit.
LF
LF
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PPL licence applications are down 30% and this is not just in the UK, it is carried through most of the European states. JAR PPL is a failure, but I do not know about the CPL. I would not expect that to be next, I think the professionals will carry on with JAR.
Rod
Rod
The NPPL Standards group also plan, with the agreement of the CAA, to negotiate an upgrade path from NPPL(SEP) to JAR-FCL PPL (SEP) for those who meet the appropriate medical requirements but wish to start their flying with the slightly simpler training requirements of the NPPL. There seems no point in any simpler theoretical requirements than the current JAR-FCL PPL exams and, as these also carry generous CPL groundschool theory time credits, it is in the interest of most to 'bite the bullet' and to study for these exams.
It seems that there will probably be 3 types of NPPL(SEP) applicant:
1. Those who cannot meet JAR medical standards - particularly current ex-PPL pilots with reduced medical levels.
2. Those who wish to add SEP qualifications to existing Microlight, glider or SLMG licences.
3. Those who just want to learn to fly as cheaply as possible in the UK and for whom the NPPL will represent all they will ever wish to achieve.
It seems that there will probably be 3 types of NPPL(SEP) applicant:
1. Those who cannot meet JAR medical standards - particularly current ex-PPL pilots with reduced medical levels.
2. Those who wish to add SEP qualifications to existing Microlight, glider or SLMG licences.
3. Those who just want to learn to fly as cheaply as possible in the UK and for whom the NPPL will represent all they will ever wish to achieve.
Does anybody know if France is creating an NPPL as well and that there will be a mutual acceptance agreement between France and the UK? 
If this is the case, why did we waste so much (of our tax)money implementing JAR at PPL level?
If this is the case, why did we waste so much (of our tax)money implementing JAR at PPL level?