Aircraft lands in Cheltenham garden
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I am sorry but you are totally wrong that is not The Cirrus stance at all which is to glide to a suitable conventional landing area and only as a last resort to CONSIDER the use of the chute!
Please show me where Cirrus state otherwise ?
Please show me where Cirrus state otherwise ?
As to your "child on the ground" scenario: Should it happen once at some point (and then still once more than someone on the ground getting hurt in a "normal" emergency landing), we might start considering it.
@Steve: As you can see, clear enough. Thanks!
Last edited by thborchert; 6th Jun 2013 at 14:01.
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Pace
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you.
There have been 45 Cirrus CAPS deployments and there has never been a fatal outcome (to pilot, passenger, baby on ground or puppy farm
)when the system has been deployed within its design limits (IAS < 133 KTS). Indeed there have been saves when it has been used as fast as 186 KTS.
By contrast, there have been far to many fatal accidents which could have ended very differently if CAPS had been used.
If you have the time, I strongly suggest you watch this video:
It is an hour long, but it makes the case very convincingly.
(Edit: click on Vimeo to watch)
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you.
There have been 45 Cirrus CAPS deployments and there has never been a fatal outcome (to pilot, passenger, baby on ground or puppy farm
)when the system has been deployed within its design limits (IAS < 133 KTS). Indeed there have been saves when it has been used as fast as 186 KTS.By contrast, there have been far to many fatal accidents which could have ended very differently if CAPS had been used.
If you have the time, I strongly suggest you watch this video:
It is an hour long, but it makes the case very convincingly.
(Edit: click on Vimeo to watch)
Last edited by Jonzarno; 6th Jun 2013 at 14:13.
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Something I learned from TV documentaries on plane crashes... (may be wrong but thought I would say it anyway), and applies looking at the photos, is that this plane's propellor was rotating at speed (idle included) when it impacted the ground, this is shown as all three blade ends are bent in a curved direction towards the plane, indicating the propellor was rotating at least a whole revolution (and possibly a lot more looking at the damage) when the plane hit the ground.
You can also see marks on the concrete path in the garden.
This shows the engine was running, if only at idle, and the propeller rotating with force for at least one revolution when the plane "landed"
Daily Mail article says: Eyewitnesses from a local website directory also saw the plane coming down.
One employee said: 'We saw the plane veer through the clouds in a strange movement, then disappear back into the clouds. We said "Blimey! It looks like that plane is in trouble!"
Read more: Pilot, 76, walks away from plane crash with just minor injuries after deploying emergency PARACHUTE which allowed his light aircraft to float to safety in a quiet Cheltenham back garden | Mail Online
You can also see marks on the concrete path in the garden.
This shows the engine was running, if only at idle, and the propeller rotating with force for at least one revolution when the plane "landed"
Daily Mail article says: Eyewitnesses from a local website directory also saw the plane coming down.
One employee said: 'We saw the plane veer through the clouds in a strange movement, then disappear back into the clouds. We said "Blimey! It looks like that plane is in trouble!"
Read more: Pilot, 76, walks away from plane crash with just minor injuries after deploying emergency PARACHUTE which allowed his light aircraft to float to safety in a quiet Cheltenham back garden | Mail Online
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For what it's worth:
Registered Owner
Name SOUTHERN AIRCRAFT CONSULTANCY INC TRUSTEE
Street TOWN FARM
POUND LANE
City DITCHINGHAM BUNGAY State
County Zip Code NR35 - 2DN
Country UNITED KINGDOM
Registered Owner
Name SOUTHERN AIRCRAFT CONSULTANCY INC TRUSTEE
Street TOWN FARM
POUND LANE
City DITCHINGHAM BUNGAY State
County Zip Code NR35 - 2DN
Country UNITED KINGDOM
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Jonzarno
I was purely clearing up a false statement regarding Cirrus official stance on using the chute in event of an engine failure! Cirrus official stance is to glide clear towards a suitable field and make a conventional forced landing!
If there is no suitable landing area to the CONSIDER the use of the chute!
Others state otherwise.
Concerning pulling the chute over a built up area where you can glide clear I would be totally opposed as I consider by doing so would be reckless to others on the ground and a totally selfish and unneeded exercise!
Other situations ? Yes I would pull the chute
Pace
I was purely clearing up a false statement regarding Cirrus official stance on using the chute in event of an engine failure! Cirrus official stance is to glide clear towards a suitable field and make a conventional forced landing!
If there is no suitable landing area to the CONSIDER the use of the chute!
Others state otherwise.
Concerning pulling the chute over a built up area where you can glide clear I would be totally opposed as I consider by doing so would be reckless to others on the ground and a totally selfish and unneeded exercise!
Other situations ? Yes I would pull the chute
Pace
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Seems to me that this system is being used because of PILOT ERROR most of the time !!!!!
" loss of control in IMC"
"Pitot iced over in IMC". Not a major major problem ( A P T. Cross check of instruments etc)
Haven,t watched the full video yet But i,m guessing the majority were NOT mechanical.
Frightening
" loss of control in IMC"
"Pitot iced over in IMC". Not a major major problem ( A P T. Cross check of instruments etc)
Haven,t watched the full video yet But i,m guessing the majority were NOT mechanical.
Frightening
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Seems to me that this system is being used because of PILOT ERROR most of the time !!!!!
Sorry for debating this over and over again, but it's important. People are dying from not getting it. People I personally knew have. So, again, apologies, but it really IS important.
Last edited by thborchert; 6th Jun 2013 at 15:30.
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Seems to me that this system is being used because of PILOT ERROR most of the time !!!!!
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I was purely clearing up a false statement regarding Cirrus official stance on using the chute in event of an engine failure! Cirrus official stance is to glide clear towards a suitable field and make a conventional forced landing!
If there is no suitable landing area to the CONSIDER the use of the chute!
If there is no suitable landing area to the CONSIDER the use of the chute!
Two sources:
1) Cirrus Aircraft web page to support training on utilisation of CAPS parachute recovery system: CAPS™ WORKS. TRAINING MAKES IT WORK FOR YOU.
2) Cirrus Aircraft Pilot Operating Handbook 13772-005 issued for G5 models states in the Emergency Procedure for an engine failure as follows:
"If altitude or terrain does not permit a safe landing, CAPS deployment may be required. Refer to Section 10, Cirrus Airframe Parachute System (CAPS) for CAPS deployment scenarios and landing considerations."
Then Section 10 in the same POH states the following:
"Landing Required in Terrain not Permitting a Safe Landing
If a forced landing on an unprepared surface is required CAPS activation is recommended unless the pilot in command concludes there is a high likelihood that a safe landing can be accomplished. If a condition requiring a forced landing occurs over rough or mountainous terrain, over water out of gliding distance to land, over widespread ground fog or at night, CAPS activation is strongly recommended. Numerous fatalities that have occurred in Cirrus aircraft accidents likely could have been avoided if pilots had made the timely decision to deploy CAPS.
While attempting to glide to an airfield to perform a power off landing, the pilot must be continuously aware of altitude and ability to successfully perform the landing. Pilot must make the determination by 2000' AGL if the landing is assured or if CAPS will be required."
Cheers
Rick
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Military fighter "jocks" fall into the latter category, for example
And if the bang out and later its found that they didn't have to they won't be flying mil jets again.
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Don't start this debate again!
Cheers
Rick
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Quote:
Military fighter "jocks" fall into the latter category, for example
Well the Brits are still taught to do a forced landings in single engine jets with engine outs.
And if the bang out and later its found that they didn't have to they won't be flying mil jets again.
Military fighter "jocks" fall into the latter category, for example
Well the Brits are still taught to do a forced landings in single engine jets with engine outs.
And if the bang out and later its found that they didn't have to they won't be flying mil jets again.
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Well the Brits are still taught to do a forced landings in single engine jets with engine outs.
And if the bang out and later its found that they didn't have to they won't be flying mil jets again.
Because, no offense, but I don't buy it.
FWIW, the hard bail out altitude for German Air Force F-4 Phantom pilots in case of trouble is 10,000 feet. I say again: 10,000 feet.
Last edited by thborchert; 6th Jun 2013 at 15:53.