IFR enroute frequencies

[Contacttower]

Ramp checked last week, went over the whole aircraft and we scored no points no requirement on the form for paper charts other than relevant approach plates.

Just curious, where was that and what registration are you flying under?

[peterh337]

Do you use the Google data to get more detailed information?

Yes. You get a very good topo chart

[10W]

I get them spelt and don't tolerate being vectored all over the sky by London. ATC are there for pilots not the other way round! I expect to follow the planned route or a shorter one!

I hope I misunderstand you ..... but if not:

Does that mean you tell London you aren't going to do what they ask you to do ? And to hell with them, let them sort out all the other aircraft they are trying to separate you from ?

ATC is there for the benefit of ALL pilots, which can mean if you are the odd ball going against the rest of the orderly flow, you might get moved around a bit for the greater good of everyone. If you are not able to tolerate that, stop being selfish and don't fly through busy airspace where everyone else is playing the game and doing their bit to keep things moving.

[Fuji Abound]

Actually isnt there a balance?

There are times when we all might think ATC is being a real pain in the pita and really neither being helpful and yes, on occasions perhaps because we are just a bit of a nuisance to other faster and "paying" traffic. It is rarely the case, but I think it happens, and there are times you feel like reminding them there are two parties to the contract.

Just a thought.

[10W]

You are right Fuji, but it's usually very little to do with who is paying what (a 747 will be paying more than a 737 for example) and everything to do with what is the most expeditious, orderly, and safe flow of air traffic.

On occasion, that can even mean the slow overflying GA aircraft is kept where he should be and other jet traffic is moved around him.

It is democratic generally, in other words, the majority users rule

[peterh337]

Normally one does as told by ATC, not least because one has no way of knowing why ATC are issuing a specific instruction.

There however seem to be occassions when one ATCO is making his/her life a bit easier than another ATCO might have done.

The most common example is IFR GA traffic getting dumped out of CAS way too early, even though it is at the customary LTMA crossing level of FL100-120 or so. It happens much less than it used to, presumably because the issue has received a big profile on some liason committees.

I have on occassions refused to accept such early dump, due to hazardous wx close ahead, and on one occassion due to a passenger having painful ear clearing problems (so was unable to deliver the -1500fpm or faster descent requested by ATC). ATC were OK with that and just gave me headings.

[mad_jock]

Just curious, where was that and what registration are you flying under?

It doesn't matter what the reg is.

You can have a D reg plane flying under a spanish AOC with a Brit pilot flying it.

EASA - Safety Assessment Of Foreign Aircraft (EC SAFA Programme)

If your ops manuals have been approved by the NAA that issued the AOC don't stipulate that they need to be carried you don't have to.

In the UK AOC's the part C's stipulates that airways charts should be carried.

[Fuji Abound]

10W I agree and I would reiterate in the vast majority of cases there is very good reason for the instructions given. The point was that there is the odd occasion (and Peterh337 gives a good example) when you cant imagine of a single good reason.

[Contacttower]

It doesn't matter what the reg is.

Yes I know, I was just interested to know who is being ramp checked and where...

[mad_jock]

Everyone and anywhere in europe is normal these days.

Even BA sometimes gets a visit.

[Fuji Abound]

Reminds me of a true story that still makes me chuckle.

BA aircraft and the autocrats turn up for a ramp check - all three of them. They announce their intentions but my mate asks them to produce their ID tabs. As it happens they had forgotten to hang them. Well my mate says in that case they aren't getting past the hosties and that's all there is to it. There follows must protestation and wagging of figures but my mate isn't budging and they huddle on the apron as said pilots initiates the taxi from the ramp.

With some glee he recounts he gives them a short burst of Mr Boeings finest as they huddle; the pipes are directly in front of them - papers, clipboards et al fly every where and the BA flight departs on time for Blighty.

My mate was in his last year before retiring and as he said hadn't anything to loose, notwithstanding he was within his rights and they were wrong.

[mad_jock]

I had one in Finland which was memorable.

3 inspectors turned up with an engineer. 2 inspectors were under training.

Engineer did the outside and sat at the back while we did the paper work and the other stuff.

In Finland most of if not all Inspectors are operational Finair pilots.

All very sensible and in no way aggressive.

End of it was well thats all, any issues with the aircraft ongoing?

I said well under discussion with the engineer about a hydralic weep but he says its deicing fluid.

So all of us go outside to look at the tail with a sticky substance on it. All of the pilots agree that its hydralic fluid.

Engineer takes one look at it and announces " pilots, bunch clueless " and walked off to the van. We all looked at each other shrugged and shoke hands and they went off to the van.