Olympics - Atlas Control
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
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Text messages frequently don't come through, or get delayed.
There is no later feedback as to whether the delivery attempt succeeds or fails, so the sender has no way of knowing that it failed so maybe they should send it again.
There are other interesting features of the SMS protocol, most of which aren't implemented by either the phones or the networks. Just as an example, does your phone allow you to specify the expiry time on SMSs you send? If not, does it make up and send an expiry time of its own, and what is that I wonder? If a message is still in the network when its expiry time arrives it's just deleted.
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The primary acknowledgement is via the route the Flight Plan went in e.g. AFPEx, or presumably for you SkyDemon? Not sure how SD does it, but in AFPEx there is a 'FRE' message sent to your terminal / address.
NoD
NoD
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If you login to the SkyDemon website (customer center or something like that), there's an area where you can manage your FPLs. I would assume that any message from Atlas would be accessible through there.
Join Date: Jan 2011
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It is a huge mess. Spend 6 hours trying to get flightplans accepted ... via Skydemon, EuroFPL and the Dutch CAA.
Got rejections on EHRD being an unknown airfield (Rotterdam
)
Ultimately had 2 flightplans in the system, had them checked oke by the supervisor. Ended up getting an approval nr for 1 plan verbally from the supervisor and a cancellation via SMS from the second plan.
Arrived at Clacton. Held for what seemed 10 minutes before I could state my message. Then had to wait another long time because they could not find my flightplan and then even later flat out refused entry because my code was incorrect.....
A huge mess!!
I ended up in where I was helped extremely well by the local club and by Irv Lee who is an instructor there. When I left I simply filed a zulu plan out of popham joining at CPT and then flew straight over R112 no sweat what so ever.
Thanks Irv and Popham
Got rejections on EHRD being an unknown airfield (Rotterdam
)Ultimately had 2 flightplans in the system, had them checked oke by the supervisor. Ended up getting an approval nr for 1 plan verbally from the supervisor and a cancellation via SMS from the second plan.
Arrived at Clacton. Held for what seemed 10 minutes before I could state my message. Then had to wait another long time because they could not find my flightplan and then even later flat out refused entry because my code was incorrect.....
A huge mess!!
I ended up in where I was helped extremely well by the local club and by Irv Lee who is an instructor there. When I left I simply filed a zulu plan out of popham joining at CPT and then flew straight over R112 no sweat what so ever.
Thanks Irv and Popham
I think I heard you when airborne. If you had been a low hours pilot, which you obviously were not, it could easily have turned out differently. In 20 years of flying I can't think of another instance where a ksystem has created such risk
After 18 hours of trying to get an approval and being told they were too busy, I got verbal approval. However I had to ask if I was cleared into the zone FOUR times before I got a straight answer. The quality of the controllers was abysmal
Another flight was held for 35 minutes with an approval and on time because they were too busy
Unless atlas get themselves sorted they will be literally causing more harm than they think they might prevent
After 18 hours of trying to get an approval and being told they were too busy, I got verbal approval. However I had to ask if I was cleared into the zone FOUR times before I got a straight answer. The quality of the controllers was abysmal
Another flight was held for 35 minutes with an approval and on time because they were too busy
Unless atlas get themselves sorted they will be literally causing more harm than they think they might prevent
Join Date: May 2007
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Short bit of thread drift
NazgulAir wrote:
Naz, do you have a legal basis for that statement?
Impromptu formations without a thorough briefing beforehand and a clear definition of the roles and responsibilities of all participating pilots are not legal.
ANO Rule 8. Avoiding Aerial Collisions.
No-one with half a brain will do it without proper training and proper briefing, although the only legal requirement is for all commanders to agree.
Here somewhere....
Edit: Besides, I'd hardly refer to 1nm separation as "formation". More like "in the vicinity".
(3) Subject to sub-paragraph (7), aircraft shall not fly in formation unless the commanders of the aircraft have agreed to do so.
Here somewhere....
Edit: Besides, I'd hardly refer to 1nm separation as "formation". More like "in the vicinity".
Last edited by Tay Cough; 16th Jul 2012 at 23:11.
Impromptu formations without a thorough briefing beforehand and a clear definition of the roles and responsibilities of all participating pilots are not legal.
Naz, do you have a legal basis for that statement?
....the only legal requirement is for all commanders to agree.
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Rules of the air, Rule 8, my bold.
When I read the post by Nazgulair I thought I had missed something. My understanding is that it would be legal for me to hear someone on freq in my vicinity, call up and agree to do some formation flying and we just get on with it. Foolish perhaps, unless both pilots are trained in formation work and wx is conducive to stable flight, but legal just the same.
Whether two guys from the same club decide to fly a pair of C152s as a two ship, when discussing it over a coffee or two strangers "meet" on safetycom, as long as they agree before joining up then it is legal.
So, I wonder if such "shepherding" through "non Atlas zones" might be acceptable.
The Rules of the Air Regulations 2007
When I read the post by Nazgulair I thought I had missed something. My understanding is that it would be legal for me to hear someone on freq in my vicinity, call up and agree to do some formation flying and we just get on with it. Foolish perhaps, unless both pilots are trained in formation work and wx is conducive to stable flight, but legal just the same.
Whether two guys from the same club decide to fly a pair of C152s as a two ship, when discussing it over a coffee or two strangers "meet" on safetycom, as long as they agree before joining up then it is legal.
So, I wonder if such "shepherding" through "non Atlas zones" might be acceptable.
Avoiding aerial collisions
8.—(1) Notwithstanding that a flight is being made with air traffic control clearance it shall remain the duty of the commander of an aircraft to take all possible measures to ensure that his aircraft does not collide with any other aircraft.
(2) An aircraft shall not be flown in such proximity to other aircraft as to create a danger of collision.
(3) Subject to sub-paragraph (7), aircraft shall not fly in formation unless the commanders of the aircraft have agreed to do so.
(4) An aircraft which is obliged by this Section to give way to another aircraft shall avoid passing over or under the other aircraft, or crossing ahead of it, unless passing well clear of it.
(5) Subject to sub-paragraph (7), an aircraft which has the right-of-way under this rule shall maintain its course and speed.
(6) For the purposes of this rule a glider and a flying machine which is towing it shall be considered to be a single aircraft under the command of the commander of the flying machine.
(7) Sub-paragraphs (3) and (5) shall not apply to an aircraft flying under and in accordance with the terms of a police air operator’s certificate.
8.—(1) Notwithstanding that a flight is being made with air traffic control clearance it shall remain the duty of the commander of an aircraft to take all possible measures to ensure that his aircraft does not collide with any other aircraft.
(2) An aircraft shall not be flown in such proximity to other aircraft as to create a danger of collision.
(3) Subject to sub-paragraph (7), aircraft shall not fly in formation unless the commanders of the aircraft have agreed to do so.
(4) An aircraft which is obliged by this Section to give way to another aircraft shall avoid passing over or under the other aircraft, or crossing ahead of it, unless passing well clear of it.
(5) Subject to sub-paragraph (7), an aircraft which has the right-of-way under this rule shall maintain its course and speed.
(6) For the purposes of this rule a glider and a flying machine which is towing it shall be considered to be a single aircraft under the command of the commander of the flying machine.
(7) Sub-paragraphs (3) and (5) shall not apply to an aircraft flying under and in accordance with the terms of a police air operator’s certificate.
The Rules of the Air Regulations 2007
