Another airspace question!! - this time Class D
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another airspace question!! - this time Class D
I think I am confusing "clearance" and "flight plans".
Hi, say that you have class D airspace above you starting at say 3000' and extending to 4500'. Class D airspace is "Clearance Required = yes" yet I understand that a clearance must be given
Lets say I am flying below it - I have not submitted a flight plan for any part of my flight as it originated in class G airspace. I call up the aerodrome approach service who look after this airspace, I request a basic service and tell them that I am currently climbing to 4000'. This climb will put me into their airspace.
However, if they tell me simply "Basic service, report leaving [navaid]" does that constitute a clearance to enter controlled airspace?
Does a basic service exist in class D ?
Thanks.
Hi, say that you have class D airspace above you starting at say 3000' and extending to 4500'. Class D airspace is "Clearance Required = yes" yet I understand that a clearance must be given
Lets say I am flying below it - I have not submitted a flight plan for any part of my flight as it originated in class G airspace. I call up the aerodrome approach service who look after this airspace, I request a basic service and tell them that I am currently climbing to 4000'. This climb will put me into their airspace.
However, if they tell me simply "Basic service, report leaving [navaid]" does that constitute a clearance to enter controlled airspace?
Does a basic service exist in class D ?
Thanks.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Age: 49
Posts: 862
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They are two completely different things.
You don't tell them, you ask them. They may say no, they may say yes.
That is not a clearance. In fact, they will most likely end their reply to you with 'remain outside of controlled airspace' even if they do eventually intend on giving you a clearance.
The class of airspace is irrelevant. You may already be receiving a basic service from the controller who's airspace you wish to enter.
Hi, say that you have class D airspace above you starting at say 3000' and extending to 4500'. Class D airspace is "Clearance Required = yes" yet I understand that a clearance must be given
Lets say I am flying below it - I have not submitted a flight plan for any part of my flight as it originated in class G airspace. I call up the aerodrome approach service who look after this airspace, I request a basic service and tell them that I am currently climbing to 4000'. This climb will put me into their airspace.
Lets say I am flying below it - I have not submitted a flight plan for any part of my flight as it originated in class G airspace. I call up the aerodrome approach service who look after this airspace, I request a basic service and tell them that I am currently climbing to 4000'. This climb will put me into their airspace.
However, if they tell me simply "Basic service, report leaving [navaid]" does that constitute a clearance to enter controlled airspace?
Does a basic service exist in class D ?
RemotecUK
You will need to pass sufficient details for that part of your flight for ATC to understand what you want - that constitutes flight plan information for that purpose. To emphasise what you want, you request clearance into CAS - the clearance, if given will be phrased "cleared to enter..." - or you might be instructed to "remain outside CAS" if your potential flight would conflict with CAS traffic.
So if the only answer is "Basic Service..." (and a Basic Service, by definition, only applies outside CAS) what do you deduce from that?
Cheers
2 s
You will need to pass sufficient details for that part of your flight for ATC to understand what you want - that constitutes flight plan information for that purpose. To emphasise what you want, you request clearance into CAS - the clearance, if given will be phrased "cleared to enter..." - or you might be instructed to "remain outside CAS" if your potential flight would conflict with CAS traffic.
So if the only answer is "Basic Service..." (and a Basic Service, by definition, only applies outside CAS) what do you deduce from that?
Cheers
2 s
We all transmitted at the same time!
ATC would not "approve" a climb under a BS (i.e. outside CAS) and would not just imply a clearance in the terms that you suggest.
2 s
Ok so in the 1st instance if you "request climb altitude 4,500ft" and they approve it thats a clearance to enter the airspace?
2 s
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A basic service is an air traffic service outside controlled airspace (ATSOCAS)
Controllers are usually pretty clear, either saying "remain clear of controlled airspace" or "cleared to enter controlled airspace" usually with any restrictions such as at Bournemouth "not above altitude 2000' VFR". You can request anything you want, higher level, different routing, route through the overhead, and subject to their traffic load they will give you it.
Even a flight plan does not guarantee a clearance. Lets say you filed a flight plan from Bournemouth to Goodwood VFR direct routing, Southampton have no obligation to allow you straight through their airspace, but if you request it on the radio you just might get it.
When you establish contact, you're effectively opening a mini flight plan by letting the controller know your intentions so he can allow you into his airspace.
Controllers are usually pretty clear, either saying "remain clear of controlled airspace" or "cleared to enter controlled airspace" usually with any restrictions such as at Bournemouth "not above altitude 2000' VFR". You can request anything you want, higher level, different routing, route through the overhead, and subject to their traffic load they will give you it.
Even a flight plan does not guarantee a clearance. Lets say you filed a flight plan from Bournemouth to Goodwood VFR direct routing, Southampton have no obligation to allow you straight through their airspace, but if you request it on the radio you just might get it.
When you establish contact, you're effectively opening a mini flight plan by letting the controller know your intentions so he can allow you into his airspace.
