SEP Revalidation - Using Diff. Training as Hour with Instructor

[John Alcock]

I hope, as usual, the wealth of knowledge lurking on these forums will clear up the legalese of the CAA documents.

My SEP (JAA) Class Rating expires in December, but I've done plenty of flying already this year to satisfy the "Revalidation by Experience" method (c.25 hours).

In February I flew 1hr10 with an Instructor, logged as P/UT to complete my Tailwheel Differences Training. Nothing at this time was signed as an SEP Revalidation, but the flight was counter-signed to certify the Diff. Training. Is that flight and signature sufficient to qualify as my one-hour-with-instructor for SEP revalidation? In which case, do I just need to turn up at a helpful flying school with a CRE to look over my logbook? Can they charge for that simple act, or should a pack of biscuits/bottle of wine suffice?

Also, I understand that if I were to find that Examiner now to check my logbook, the SEP would run from July 2011, whereas even if I didn't fly again this year, if the same Examiner checked my logbook after September, the SEP would then run for 24 months from the existing date? Doesn't seem sensible...

Thanks in advance!

[Whopity]

You have completed in excess of one hour with an instructor in the requisite period. The instructor has signed off the Difference so an Examiner knows the flight is genuine and flown with an instructor therefore it qualifies. The licence can be signed by an examiner free of charge and will run for 24 months from the current validity date irrespective of when he signs it. Don't delay. If it goes beyond the date, it expires and you will need a test to renew it.

if I were to find that Examiner now to check my logbook, the SEP would run from July 2011

This can never happen, the two scenarios are Revalidation which occurs within the period of validity and Renewal which occurs outside the period of validity. The date can only change for a Renewal which requires a test and cannot occur as a result of Experience!

[John Alcock]

Thanks Whopity, that confirms what I thought about using the hour - it is valid. However, Lasors says

"If revalidating by flying experience, and providing
the examiner signs the Certificate of Revalidation
page within the 3 months prior to the rating expiry,
the validity of the revalidated rating will be calculated

from the date of expiry of the preceding rating."

My interpretation of this is that I'm better off waiting until there's 3 months to go before getting it signed by an Examiner.

Obviously letting it lapse creates a relative tidal wave of complexity, and I certainly shalln't let that happen! I don't want to diverge down the renewal/revalidate route, I understand the difference and will revalidate. What confuses me is the quote from Lasors above. I've met all the requirements now but that 3 months bit implies if I get it checked now it will run 24 months from now. It will only keep the original date if the examiner signs it with less than 3 months to go.

[BackPacker]

John, you are right. It is better to wait until September, as you'll get it extended two years from the date of expiration, not from the date of getting the examiners signature.

In other words, if you go to an examiner now (either an FE or CRE, doesn't matter), you'll get extended until july 2013, whereas you wait until september, you'll get it extended until december 2013.

Can't explain it, but that's how it works.

And yes, according to JAR-FCL and the ANO, any flight with an instructor counts, as long as it's over one hour and logged as PU/T. LASORS confuses the issue by saying that it needs to be a revalidation flight, with purpose and objectives made clear as such, but to the best of my knowledge that LASORS "advice" has no basis in any legal text. So if the purpose of the flight was tailwheel training, or even if you were just bimbling about with your instructor friend, and you decided to both log the time (he/she as PIC, you as PU/T), it counts. (That last example might not have been the spirit of the whole idea, but it is 100% legit as far as I know.)

[Whopity]

The requirement for the examiner to sign the certificate within three months of expiry was a legal cock-up that dates back to 1999. There was never any such requirement in JAR-FCL nor in any other JAA State. It was confused with the 3 month requirement for the test option, and makes no sense. As there is no date of signing on the current revalidation certificate, so nobody is any the wiser, just delay sending in the SRG1119, however, nobody reads that either.

The sole reason for the instructors signature is to acknowledge that a flight meets the revalidation requirement, any instructional flight counts as do IMC tests and proficiency checks on any other class or type of aeroplane all of which would be associated with a signature in accordance with Art 79 (3)

[Pannie]

In the first few years (2000+) of our current rule, there was no 3 month limit for a reval sign-off (I once had mine done around 9 months before expiry without loss i.e 24+9months). And then someone moved, or reinforced, the goalposts and so I believe it is as described above: 3 months prior to expiry if one wants to keep the expiry date the same.

[John Alcock]

Whopity and BackPacker, thanks for clearing that up for me. Sounds like I'm all sorted and ready to go, I'll get everything ready and then fill in the paperwork in September.

I thought the 3 month bit didn't make sense, but wasn't sure whether it was the CAA or me being dense!

Thanks again!

[Whopity]

In the first few years (2000+) of our current rule, there was no 3 month limit

It appeared in the 1999 ANO amendment so it has always been there, it just didn't appear in LASORS till later. But as I said above, its of no consequence and for the first few years nobody took any notice of it.

[BEagle]

As Whopity says, it was indeed a CAA cock-up. I told them about it and asked them to sort it in a subsequent ANO amendment, but they were too scared of admitting to have cocked-up and wouldn't change anything in order that their incompetence wouldn't be revealed....

[blagger]

So exactly what happens with the SRG1119s at the CAA then?

[Whopity]

They are scanned and form part of your personal electronic record. No data is taken from them unless you are applying for a new rating. It has been known for new applications to have been filed rather than processed because nobody spotted the difference.