Cirrus pilot blacks out, wife saves situation
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glider pilots have known for some time that a good snort of O2 does wonders for a hangover.....
First time I used oxygen mask in a glider, found it quite difficult psychologically. As the last time I had to breath gas through a mask was during childbirth; every time I took a deep breath at 12,000 feet, couldn't help....half....expecting....to...go to.....slee...
First time I used oxygen mask in a glider, found it quite difficult psychologically. As the last time I had to breath gas through a mask was during childbirth; every time I took a deep breath at 12,000 feet, couldn't help....half....expecting....to...go to.....slee...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As the last time I had to breath gas through a mask was during childbirth; every time I took a deep breath at 12,000 feet, couldn't help....half....expecting....to...go to.....slee...
And if you get a decent demand regulator (the MH one is the best) then your o2 bottle will last about 10x longer than if you were feeding a straight mask.
I believe it was a 2006 Model SR22. I think it was offered as an optional factory fit - so it could have been anything that was in use.
I think the wife indicated that she was having to 'hold the mask'.
From the recording, it as indicated that they were at around 17000 - Eastbound so that would be right (IFR).
I think the wife indicated that she was having to 'hold the mask'.
From the recording, it as indicated that they were at around 17000 - Eastbound so that would be right (IFR).
So, my bet would be on a total ignorance of the system and of operating procedures, or maybe a system fault (1st stage regulator failure perhaps, or just running out of gas), together with them not having a blood oxygen tester (which would be really stupid).
Let's face it, they don't exactly teach anything as practically relevant as this on a PPL or a PPL/IR (JAA or FAA).
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hypoxia
I agree with those who think that one of the factors that contributed to this inccident was lack of or poor training, the trouble with Hypoxia is that it can induce a feeling of well being and so the victim may well be totaly uaware that he has a problem. This was likely to have been the situation in the Cirrus, the guy had the O2 fitted but it had failed to work but He did not pick up the problem.
With the correct trainning you can pick up the problems before inccpacitation sets in, light headedness and a sence of well being are good examples, also feeling sleepy and the reduction of night vision can be clues.
The last two symptoms sent me for the O2 mask one night when we had a cabin compressor failure (the other compressor was trying to keep up but the cabin altitude was slowly rising and topped out at about 13,000ft).
I was the Flight Engineer on the aircraft and having done the drills for the compressor failure I was monitoring the cabin altitude over the next 30 min the cabin altitude climbed to about 12,000ft cabin altitude (due to the MSA we could not go lower at the time). I noticed that I started feeling sleepy and it seemed very dark outside, it was a good VFR night but there was only a few big towns to be seen. At this point I went on to the O2 and within 1-2 min the sleepy feeling had gone and the lights of small towns and individual houses could be seen.
It was my training that helped me to pick up this subtle inccapasitation before it became apparent to the other two guys on the flight deck, I guess the moral of the story is that if you are going high enough to need O2 ge some training in the effects and symptoms of hypoxia, it might just save your life.
With the correct trainning you can pick up the problems before inccpacitation sets in, light headedness and a sence of well being are good examples, also feeling sleepy and the reduction of night vision can be clues.
The last two symptoms sent me for the O2 mask one night when we had a cabin compressor failure (the other compressor was trying to keep up but the cabin altitude was slowly rising and topped out at about 13,000ft).
I was the Flight Engineer on the aircraft and having done the drills for the compressor failure I was monitoring the cabin altitude over the next 30 min the cabin altitude climbed to about 12,000ft cabin altitude (due to the MSA we could not go lower at the time). I noticed that I started feeling sleepy and it seemed very dark outside, it was a good VFR night but there was only a few big towns to be seen. At this point I went on to the O2 and within 1-2 min the sleepy feeling had gone and the lights of small towns and individual houses could be seen.
It was my training that helped me to pick up this subtle inccapasitation before it became apparent to the other two guys on the flight deck, I guess the moral of the story is that if you are going high enough to need O2 ge some training in the effects and symptoms of hypoxia, it might just save your life.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IO540, gliders climbing in wave do not remain at 12,000. During my 9 attempts to gain diamond heights at Deeside gliding club in Scotland, ( once I had figured out that the regulator had to be set at either 2 or 4, not halfway inbetwen the two) I got to 14,000 feet, l7,000 feet, 19,000 feet and eventually rang the bell at 20,300 feet agl.
Safety procedures involved taking the mask off from time to time and responding
rationally to Deeside ground making kind enquiries as to the state of my euphoria.
Safety procedures involved taking the mask off from time to time and responding
rationally to Deeside ground making kind enquiries as to the state of my euphoria.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk
Age: 63
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sycamore - no problem
10540 - all I meant to point out was that not all Cirrus owners can automatically afford installed or portable oxygen systems.
Clearly in this case the aircraft had oxygen and we can make bets on what it was but we dont know, I understand the Pilot was experienced and capable.
There have been several situations I am aware of where very experienced and competent pilots have perished due to Hypoxia who were well trained and respected. It is an additional risk of flying at Altitude that could catch anyone out.
Quote:
not correct that everyone who flys a Cirrus can afford the extra cost of Oxygen.
Would you like to elaborate on that?
not correct that everyone who flys a Cirrus can afford the extra cost of Oxygen.
Would you like to elaborate on that?
Clearly in this case the aircraft had oxygen and we can make bets on what it was but we dont know, I understand the Pilot was experienced and capable.
There have been several situations I am aware of where very experienced and competent pilots have perished due to Hypoxia who were well trained and respected. It is an additional risk of flying at Altitude that could catch anyone out.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
all I meant to point out was that not all Cirrus owners can automatically afford installed or portable oxygen systems
But portable ones are a few hundred bucks, and despite being less tidy they are just as good. Makes no sense to fly without.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IO540
I agree, I cant imagine that you would be flying a Cirrus unless you could also afford oxygen.
Whether you would routinely want to use oxygen is another question - mission profile and all that of course comes into the equation.
Unfortunately high end GA is not cheap (although everything is relative I guess) but the cost of oxygen is really not going to amount to more than a few hours flying I am afraid.
I agree, I cant imagine that you would be flying a Cirrus unless you could also afford oxygen.
Whether you would routinely want to use oxygen is another question - mission profile and all that of course comes into the equation.
Unfortunately high end GA is not cheap (although everything is relative I guess) but the cost of oxygen is really not going to amount to more than a few hours flying I am afraid.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk
Age: 63
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True, the portable systems are very afforadable, the point I was not making very well is that some Cirrus renters and owners are flying on a tighter budget but I accept the point entirely.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk
Age: 63
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Santa Cruz native helps distressed couple land plane - Santa Cruz Sentinel
Interesting follow up article with lost of detail from the chase plane pilot who had 19 passengers on board and assisted the wife with how to set the autopilot
Interesting follow up article with lost of detail from the chase plane pilot who had 19 passengers on board and assisted the wife with how to set the autopilot
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Recognition of contribution to safety would be well deserved!
In the UK, the Guild of Air Pilots and Navigators gives an award, I believe, to a person or persons who have signally contributed to the good outcome of a bad situation in aviation.
The excellent writeup in the paper referred to in the last post would suggest that both Ian Norris, the Great Lakes Airline pilot who helped to guide the Cirrus to a safe arrival, and Charlie Rohrer, the Denver ATC who recognised the symptoms of apoxia and sent out a call for assistance, would be worthy recipients of such an award.
The excellent writeup in the paper referred to in the last post would suggest that both Ian Norris, the Great Lakes Airline pilot who helped to guide the Cirrus to a safe arrival, and Charlie Rohrer, the Denver ATC who recognised the symptoms of apoxia and sent out a call for assistance, would be worthy recipients of such an award.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk
Age: 63
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mary, I agree, there is a suggestion that they will be invited to the annual COPA (Cirrus Owners & Pilots Association) gathering which this year is in Colorado Springs in August and receive recognition if not an award.
