4 seater emergency landing on dual carriageway

[moreflaps]

I guess that makes NZ pilots really cool, we practice FLWOP

http://www.caa.govt.nz/Publications/...sue-4_June.pdf

Competitions and Awards - Forced Landing Without Power (FLWOP)

Of course, our coolness is only slightly dimished by the knowledge that glider pilots do it all the time

Cheers

[cct]

I practice forced landings without using power, but definitely not FLWOP - that would be the real thing.

[Ryan5252]

I'm not trying to start a flame, but you are quite wrong to state that "Let's be clear, the outcome of this incident was above and beyond any pilot training." Did you not do and demonstrate FLWOP skills?

I did. I was trained to save life and limb, myself and passengers. The aircraft is not my primary concern. Perhaps they train differently in your neck of the woods.

(who was in the R-seat?)

It is unknown. I personally don't care to speculate on unkowns. What is known, is it is a 21 year old pilot landed an aircraft on a highway without power.

I bet he would like/appreciate constructive comments on his choices post landing.

As he appears not to be here to speak for himself I won't assume what he wants, or speak for him.

The second puzzle is why the _very_ late mayday when masters should have been off.

I was taught to aviate, navigate, communicate. Shut down checks should be done before landing, but only if time permits. Flying the plane first should always be a priority. In my humble view, I would be quite happy to touch down with electrics on and know that I had made a mayday, then to switch them off and hope they come quickly! Again, it is unknown how much time was available beforehand. I won't speculate on unknowns.

Ryan

[onetrack]

I had a mate who did an emergency landing on a highway in rural Australia in his PA-28 when a fuel tank switch failed. All was going well, until a roadside sign appeared, and there was inadequate wingspan clearance.
He hit one of the signs support posts, and almost took the wing off. He and his young passenger survived without injury.
Be very aware that signposts on roads are a very real hazard in emergency landings, and often have inadequate wingspan clearance with their positioning.

[moreflaps]

Hi Ryan,

The procedure for FLWOP in the 172 is quite clear in the POH:

1) Airspeed 75 MPH (flaps up), 70 MPH (flaps down)
2) Mixture Idle cut off
3) Fuel off
4) Mags off
5) Flaps as required
6) Masters off
7) Doors unlatch
8) touchdown slightly tail low
9) maximum brakes.

Does you plane not include the masters off and/or door unlatch? These are really quite important actions.

Cheers

[Ryan5252]

Does you plane not include the masters off and/or door unlatch? These are really quite important actions.

Not having the checklist to hand I cannot say. I would say that everything on an emergency checklist are 'quite important actions' otherwise I doubt they would be included.

However, I would not be turning the master off until a mayday call was made. Also, I would not be turning the master off it was required to fly the plane as in the case of a cessna which I fly.

Time may have been a factor in this incident resulting in the rather late mayday call and as a result the Master was left on to accommodate this.
As I said before, Fly the plane first! The checklist comes second.

Ryan

[Pace]

What a pilot does or doesnt do in a forced landing will depend on how cool and calm he is his natural skills and a big dollop of luck.
Into that comes his judgement on selecting his landing spot!
Pretty stupid to select a road if he has good fields either side, pretty clever if he is in a built up area or over small unsuitable fields.
If we take the Hudson forced landing onto a river then probably most pilots faced with a mass of buildings below would take to the river or whatever they consider at the time would make the best landing site.
Flying the aircraft has to be priority no 1 as stalling or spinning in isnt going to help anyone.
Obviously doing anything prior to the landing/crash which will save the aircraft from bursting into flames will be a good thing but not at the expense of stalling or spinning in or even getting the approach profile wrong because you have been distracted fiddling with lessor important items to flying the aircraft.
It is a matter of priority and the amount of time you have.
If you are at 10000 feet when the donkey goes bang you will probably have time to chat to ATC about the latest football scores if at 1000 feet then NO!
Prioritise!!!! Fly the plane and the approach profile. The rest if it doesnt interfere with either flying the plane or the approach profile.

Pace

[enq]

As Pace says, each situation is different & many forced landings, certainly in the South East of the UK where I fly, are likely to commence at a relatively low height due to airspace restrictions. This in turn means a reliance on practiced procedures rather than spending valuable aviation time scrambling around trying to find & use the emergency checklist.

Last week I practiced a forced landing onto an unmanned airfield in FL which is great for settling the "Could I really have made the planned landing site?" question but even then I did not (of course) actually turn off the master or unlatch the doors.

I suspect that, in the real event, I will remember the actions I have actually practiced & performed (airspeed, site selection, approach planning & landing) but am less likely to remember the ones that have only been simulated.

I would also say that, in the excellent example shown in the video, the pilot was quite correct to devote his time to the narrow approach & landing environment rather than risk failing to aviate & killing everyone on board by moving his focus inside the cockpit, for however short a time, reading the checklist, trying to locate & turn off the master, looking for his door latch & instructing his passenger to unlatch their side.

If its a choice then I would say that keeping the wings intact is a far better way of avoiding a fire than ensuring the master is off & for me, low level with insufficient power to get out of trouble is not, in my opinion, the time or place to be pushing my own personal performance envelope.

Of course I would hope that it never comes to it & if it does there is sufficient time to reach for the list, plan & also brief passengers & ATC at a leisurely pace rather than rely solely on remembered & practiced procedures but I'm not banking on it.

Regards all, enq.

[Machdiamond]

Moreflaps, the Yahoo news video is indeed screwed up, video playing at twice the speed and sound at normal speed.

The "very late" mayday was actually not issued as late as it appears in that video. The Canoe link has a correct video.

It was not fuel exhaustion, CADORS reports broken seal on #3 cylinder intake valve.

Right seat was occupied by girlfriend (i.e. not a more experience pilot).

Pace, strongly disagree with your comment that it was pretty stupid to select a road rather than good fields. The fields were quite damp, and digging in the nosewheel and injuring occupants would have been a likely outcome. In other circumstances, fields may be a better choice but not in this case.

[enq]

Machdiamond;

Pace, strongly disagree with your comment that it was pretty stupid to select a road rather than good fields. The fields were quite damp, and digging in the nosewheel and injuring occupants would have been a likely outcome. In other circumstances, fields may be a better choice but not in this case.

I think you're at cross purposes as Pace states;

...pretty clever (to select a road) if he is in a built up area or over small unsuitable fields

so you both seem in agreement on the field / road selection criteria.

[Machdiamond]

The video shows large fields on either side of the road, so I assumed that is what was meant but you may be right.