china bought Continental
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china bought Continental
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The production line will probably be moved to China asap because the workforce is much cheaper.
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Quote:
The production line will probably be moved to China asap because the workforce is much cheaper.
Ahh, no actually, as the sale was contingent on the present facilities being maintained...and enlarged.
But for how long, 2 yrs. 5 yrs.10 yrs??
The production line will probably be moved to China asap because the workforce is much cheaper.
Ahh, no actually, as the sale was contingent on the present facilities being maintained...and enlarged.
But for how long, 2 yrs. 5 yrs.10 yrs??
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I used to think Chinese stuff was all junk, particularly the horrible backyard-forge tools sold in the U. S. by companies such as Harbor Freight and Northern Tool.
Then I noticed something. My wintertime hobby is building very detailed scale-model aircraft, and for some years, many of the best injection-molded plastic kits were manufactured in Japan and Central Europe.
No longer true. The Chinese make the best kits by far, and if you think manufacturing "toy airplanes" is no big deal, I'm talking about serious kits that cost $150 to $200 U.S., not kid stuff. The Chinese dies and molds turn out kits of stunning, never-before-seen detail and accuracy.
My new metric for judging the quality of Chinese manufacture is kits like these, and if the Chinese are the best in the world at manufacturing them (even though the company in question, such as Wingnut Wings, might be located in New Zealand), I know they're no longer to be mocked.
Then I noticed something. My wintertime hobby is building very detailed scale-model aircraft, and for some years, many of the best injection-molded plastic kits were manufactured in Japan and Central Europe.
No longer true. The Chinese make the best kits by far, and if you think manufacturing "toy airplanes" is no big deal, I'm talking about serious kits that cost $150 to $200 U.S., not kid stuff. The Chinese dies and molds turn out kits of stunning, never-before-seen detail and accuracy.
My new metric for judging the quality of Chinese manufacture is kits like these, and if the Chinese are the best in the world at manufacturing them (even though the company in question, such as Wingnut Wings, might be located in New Zealand), I know they're no longer to be mocked.
It's quite simple - if you ask a Chinese factory to make something as cheap as chips and you say you'll only pay peanuts (as many buyers do) - then they will make you something that is cheap as chips and looks it. Most of the Cheap Chinese stuff on sale in the west was bought by western buyers looking to make a killing not by a Chinese company opening up shop in the west trying to pass of cheap rubbish.
Give them a spec, put in place agreed inspection and testing (& auditing) and pay a price that allows targets to be met without cutting corners - and much like anywhere else on earth you'll get a decent product.
Give them a spec, put in place agreed inspection and testing (& auditing) and pay a price that allows targets to be met without cutting corners - and much like anywhere else on earth you'll get a decent product.
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SASKATOON9999:
Neither Continental nor Lycoming are as good as they once were. According to a retired NTSB inspector friend of mine, more than one new Continental and Lycoming small engines have failed due to a bad critical part here and there.
Also, with a few exceptions, the manufacture of light aircraft is slowly sliding into the sunset. The business of the future is Part 25 mega-million business class jet airplanes (and turbine rotorcraft).
Alternativly, the company is left under current stateside ownership and goes bankrupt - At the end of the day, the current management structure allowed the company share price and value to sink so badly in the first place.
Also, with a few exceptions, the manufacture of light aircraft is slowly sliding into the sunset. The business of the future is Part 25 mega-million business class jet airplanes (and turbine rotorcraft).
The real problem at Continental Motors (and Lycoming) has been the lack of investment in new processes and new technology over the years.
Its been obvious for years that what GA needs is a range of low cost diesel engines, to get out of the lead fortified gasoline syndrome which is a dead end. Whatever happened to the American entrepreneurial spirit?
Chinese ownership could be a godsend, if the new owners actually invest in the products!
Its been obvious for years that what GA needs is a range of low cost diesel engines, to get out of the lead fortified gasoline syndrome which is a dead end. Whatever happened to the American entrepreneurial spirit?
Chinese ownership could be a godsend, if the new owners actually invest in the products!
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I heard a great story about a plant in China that made Nike trainers. They had a production line producing the Nike trainers in one warehouse and an identical production line producing identical trainers without the Nike branding in another warehouse.
Point being that we (in the West) would rather pay £50 for a pair of Nike trainers than pay £25 for the exact same trainers without a tick down the side...
Point being that we (in the West) would rather pay £50 for a pair of Nike trainers than pay £25 for the exact same trainers without a tick down the side...
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I heard a great story about a plant in China that made Nike trainers. They had a production line producing the Nike trainers in one warehouse and an identical production line producing identical trainers without the Nike branding in another warehouse.
Point being that we (in the West) would rather pay £50 for a pair of Nike trainers than pay £25 for the exact same trainers without a tick down the side...
Point being that we (in the West) would rather pay £50 for a pair of Nike trainers than pay £25 for the exact same trainers without a tick down the side...
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aterpster -Neither Continental nor Lycoming are as good as they once were. According to a retired NTSB inspector friend of mine, more than one new Continental and Lycoming small engines have failed due to a bad critical part here and there.
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Statement should be easy enough to prove with statisitcs.
More about 90 minutes searching for the facts. Couldn't find any that supported the first statement. Is that your belief or a statement made by your NTSB friend?
Found the Nall Report that covers U.S. general aviation accidents as compiled by AOPA. Mechanical/maintenance accidents was 15%(+/-) in the mid to late 1990's and is the same today. Powerplant/prop is 38-40%%of mechanical for 2007/08 while previous years typically listed it at 44-48%.
In other words, the Nall report data doesn't appear to support the statement that the engine quality is getting worse. I'd welcome any links that you, or he, could provide that support the statement.
Nall Reports -
AOPA Online: AOPA Air Safety Institute - 2009 Joseph T. Nall Report
2009 Nall Report (check out page 25 out of 40) -
http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/09nall.pdf
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Statement should be easy enough to prove with statisitcs.
More about 90 minutes searching for the facts. Couldn't find any that supported the first statement. Is that your belief or a statement made by your NTSB friend?
Found the Nall Report that covers U.S. general aviation accidents as compiled by AOPA. Mechanical/maintenance accidents was 15%(+/-) in the mid to late 1990's and is the same today. Powerplant/prop is 38-40%%of mechanical for 2007/08 while previous years typically listed it at 44-48%.
In other words, the Nall report data doesn't appear to support the statement that the engine quality is getting worse. I'd welcome any links that you, or he, could provide that support the statement.
Nall Reports -
AOPA Online: AOPA Air Safety Institute - 2009 Joseph T. Nall Report
2009 Nall Report (check out page 25 out of 40) -
http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/09nall.pdf
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Both Lyco and Conti have had major QA issues (crankshafts, etc) and washed their hands of the bulk of the cost of putting it right.
Chinese can build high quality products, if they are well managed. What you do get in China (I manufacture some electronics out there) is a lot of proud and dedicated people; these qualities are very hard to find in the West and "money" is not a motivator to do a job well, anyway.
So whereas here you make a part and if you are lucky some inspector (who costs you £50k p.a. in total costs) will have a look at it and rubber stamp some bit of paper, in China you can employ - for the same money - half a dozen inspectors who will diligently measure 50 dimensions and write down the actual value and check it against a long list of tolerances, document the lot and sign their name on the bottom.
Example: buying printed circuit boards in the UK, I used to get about 2-3% defectives. This should not happen as we pay for a 100% electrical (probe) test but companies tend to skip that when the end of the month is approaching
and rubber stamp it anyway. This 2-3% is expensive because it translates into a lot of expensive nonworking product when they are populated. Since I ditched the UK and started buying bare PCBs from China, we have bought of the order of 200k circuits and the # of defective ones has been zero, zilch, none, not even one. They are a bit cheaper, too.
I have bought some Chinese machine tools and they are excellent. Not as well finished at the goode olde English ones but all those firms have either gone bust or are selling Chinese ones... trade unions, working practices, laziness, bad management, absenteesm, have seen to it - same problems the American engine makers have got now. Nobody wants to work too hard over there.
That said, building aircraft engines out there will be a significant management challenge because most of the stuff in an engine is bought-in, and controlling that is very hard in China because 90% of the people out there are reselling stuff made by somebody else (pretending they make it) and you rarely get exactly the same thing twice. Supply chain quality control is going to be very tough.
Chinese can build high quality products, if they are well managed. What you do get in China (I manufacture some electronics out there) is a lot of proud and dedicated people; these qualities are very hard to find in the West and "money" is not a motivator to do a job well, anyway.
So whereas here you make a part and if you are lucky some inspector (who costs you £50k p.a. in total costs) will have a look at it and rubber stamp some bit of paper, in China you can employ - for the same money - half a dozen inspectors who will diligently measure 50 dimensions and write down the actual value and check it against a long list of tolerances, document the lot and sign their name on the bottom.
Example: buying printed circuit boards in the UK, I used to get about 2-3% defectives. This should not happen as we pay for a 100% electrical (probe) test but companies tend to skip that when the end of the month is approaching
and rubber stamp it anyway. This 2-3% is expensive because it translates into a lot of expensive nonworking product when they are populated. Since I ditched the UK and started buying bare PCBs from China, we have bought of the order of 200k circuits and the # of defective ones has been zero, zilch, none, not even one. They are a bit cheaper, too.I have bought some Chinese machine tools and they are excellent. Not as well finished at the goode olde English ones but all those firms have either gone bust or are selling Chinese ones... trade unions, working practices, laziness, bad management, absenteesm, have seen to it - same problems the American engine makers have got now. Nobody wants to work too hard over there.
That said, building aircraft engines out there will be a significant management challenge because most of the stuff in an engine is bought-in, and controlling that is very hard in China because 90% of the people out there are reselling stuff made by somebody else (pretending they make it) and you rarely get exactly the same thing twice. Supply chain quality control is going to be very tough.
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Well my experience of Chinese engineering is a flair for innovation:
This is not aviation but it makes the point. I live in a working watermill, which generates DC 110 volt electricity from a 120 year old 10kw dynamo. I want to update the system to 240 volts AC, but need a very lowspeed alternator to do the job... 4kw at 200 rpm. No one in the UK makes or even understands the need for such an alternator. But the BHA (British Hydropower Association) have surveyed England & Wales and concluded that if all the old watermills were retrofitted with low speed alternators the combined power would equal a nuclear power station.
So having heard the Chinese are pretty keen on small hydropower I googled for low speed alternators and came up with this:http://www.ginlong.com/wind-turbine-pmg-pma-permanent-magnet-generator-alternator.htm
A complete range of state of the art rare earth magnet lowspeed alternators that can be tailormade for any waterpower or wind power project. With that sort of innovation and drive, it's no wonder the Chinese are world leaders in electric powered aircraft. I sure hope they diversify Continental into diesel with the same get up and go mentality.
This is not aviation but it makes the point. I live in a working watermill, which generates DC 110 volt electricity from a 120 year old 10kw dynamo. I want to update the system to 240 volts AC, but need a very lowspeed alternator to do the job... 4kw at 200 rpm. No one in the UK makes or even understands the need for such an alternator. But the BHA (British Hydropower Association) have surveyed England & Wales and concluded that if all the old watermills were retrofitted with low speed alternators the combined power would equal a nuclear power station.
So having heard the Chinese are pretty keen on small hydropower I googled for low speed alternators and came up with this:http://www.ginlong.com/wind-turbine-pmg-pma-permanent-magnet-generator-alternator.htm
A complete range of state of the art rare earth magnet lowspeed alternators that can be tailormade for any waterpower or wind power project. With that sort of innovation and drive, it's no wonder the Chinese are world leaders in electric powered aircraft. I sure hope they diversify Continental into diesel with the same get up and go mentality.
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I'm not surprised. Due to the differences in wages/labour cost and the exchange rate of the yen, the Chinese are now sitting on an enormous pile of money and the only thing they can do with that is invest in Western countries/companies, particularly the US. The way things are going now, at some point in time all of the US (companies, land, anything that has value) will be owned by the Chinese.
Look at this, and particularly the highest and lowest number on the list.
List of sovereign states by current account balance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Look at this, and particularly the highest and lowest number on the list.
List of sovereign states by current account balance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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VT1 - you could easily convert your DC into 240V AC, exactly 50Hz (frequency not RPM dependent as the alternator will be) with an off the shelf inverter.
This one came up on Ebay in seconds. Not quite 110V but you get the idea. This technology is well established, for getting AC mains from photovoltaic panels.
This one came up on Ebay in seconds. Not quite 110V but you get the idea. This technology is well established, for getting AC mains from photovoltaic panels.
Story from a dinner party
A Chinese friend recently hosted a dinner party that has assorted other chinese friends. One of whom imports glassware from China and Germany and sells it to department stores etc.
On a recent trip home he was told to look out to buy distressed American companies, up to 1 billion, yes billion dollars. He would be reimbursed 70% of the purchase price by the provincial government bank.
I was not there but have no reason to disbelieve the story.
20driver
On a recent trip home he was told to look out to buy distressed American companies, up to 1 billion, yes billion dollars. He would be reimbursed 70% of the purchase price by the provincial government bank.
I was not there but have no reason to disbelieve the story.
20driver
