nutters in the circuit!
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
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Remind me again how many mid-airs have happened through OHJs in the last 5 years or so?
It can be stressful, but so can joining at any point in the circuit.
It can be stressful, but so can joining at any point in the circuit.
I don't like overhead joins because of my perception of risk and from personal experiences.
Answer this: You call "Overhead, joining for runway **" as you begin your descent. You realise your transmission was almost simulataneous with that of another pilot who calls exactly the same.
You have seen no other aircraft, apart from those already in the circuit. Where do you look and what do you do to prevent an accident?
it may not always be possible to plan the descent so as to arrive back at the crosswind point overhead the runway at circuit height at the end of the descent.
I risk assess everything I do.
Answer this: You call "Overhead, joining for runway **" as you begin your descent. You realise your transmission was almost simulataneous with that of another pilot who calls exactly the same.
- Ahead of you or behind you? (People call downwind at very different places.)
- Is he inside or outside you? (We all know people have very different views of where the downwind leg should be.)
- Above you or below you? (Should be the same height, but not always true.)
- Is he just turning downwind from crosswind?
- Is he joining crosswind from outside the circuit, US style (not legal in the UK, but people do it.)
I'm not disagreeing with the risks of OHJ, but almost any join is likely to end up with potential ambiguity of where someone is and where they're going.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,634
Received 513 Likes
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273 Posts
FREDA, thanks but my question wasn't for you...
However, an aircraft calling "Downwind" is normally already in the circuit and should have made previous calls, giving other pilots a clue of their presence. I'm not advocating joining downwind as an alternative; but putting forward the disadvantage(s) of an overhead join as opposed to a deadside join.
Two aircraft can have and will continue to appear in the overhead at the same time, while the pilots are not concentrating fully on lookout, due to workload. Both pilots will be looking for the airfield and sorting out their orientation, particularly if they are not familiar with it.
When joining overhead there is no legal requirement to make a previous call. It's obviously good airmanship to call up for airfield details in advance, but many don't bother, or don't have a radio (the latter being the whole point of the procedure).
As you say, aircraft should be at the same circuit height on the downwind leg. Also, they should be in level flight, not one descending over another, in each other's blind spots, as required by an overhead join.
After seeing a few near misses at this (and other) aerial choke points, I prefer to think of alternatives.
The scenario I posted previously was one where we came extremely close to another aircraft joining in the overhead; the other nearly took our tail off from behind. We (I was not flying the aircraft) had called up with a position report for airfield details and announced our intention to make an overhead join. As my pilot flying called "Joining overhead", another aircraft also called the same, whilst almost hitting us from behind and above, and at a 90 degree angle to our track. He then cut across in front of us as he was descending more rapidly. There was no time for us to take avoiding action as he crossed behind us; we were a very few metres from a mid air collision. He hadn't seen us; he was manoeuvring in 3D whilst perhaps over-concentrating on his join procedure at the expense of looking out and not building situational awareness.
A 2D manoeuvre is, from my risk assessment and experience, less risky, in a high workload situation. The military obviously agree.
However, an aircraft calling "Downwind" is normally already in the circuit and should have made previous calls, giving other pilots a clue of their presence. I'm not advocating joining downwind as an alternative; but putting forward the disadvantage(s) of an overhead join as opposed to a deadside join.
Two aircraft can have and will continue to appear in the overhead at the same time, while the pilots are not concentrating fully on lookout, due to workload. Both pilots will be looking for the airfield and sorting out their orientation, particularly if they are not familiar with it.
When joining overhead there is no legal requirement to make a previous call. It's obviously good airmanship to call up for airfield details in advance, but many don't bother, or don't have a radio (the latter being the whole point of the procedure).
As you say, aircraft should be at the same circuit height on the downwind leg. Also, they should be in level flight, not one descending over another, in each other's blind spots, as required by an overhead join.
After seeing a few near misses at this (and other) aerial choke points, I prefer to think of alternatives.
The scenario I posted previously was one where we came extremely close to another aircraft joining in the overhead; the other nearly took our tail off from behind. We (I was not flying the aircraft) had called up with a position report for airfield details and announced our intention to make an overhead join. As my pilot flying called "Joining overhead", another aircraft also called the same, whilst almost hitting us from behind and above, and at a 90 degree angle to our track. He then cut across in front of us as he was descending more rapidly. There was no time for us to take avoiding action as he crossed behind us; we were a very few metres from a mid air collision. He hadn't seen us; he was manoeuvring in 3D whilst perhaps over-concentrating on his join procedure at the expense of looking out and not building situational awareness.
A 2D manoeuvre is, from my risk assessment and experience, less risky, in a high workload situation. The military obviously agree.
All circuits to the south of the airfield at 700 ft. Please avoid the villages of Bubwith, Breighton and Wressle to the north-west and south-west respectively. Join on the south side of the airfield for base leg. Please be aware of the power cables on the western approach
aircraft should be at the same circuit height on the downwind leg. Also, they should be in level flight, not one descending over another, in each other's blind spots, as required by an overhead join.
But again: this is beginner's talk.
