John & Martha King - false arrest
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John & Martha King - false arrest
The US FAA has egg all over it's face after a stolen aircraft database that it controls did not remove the registration number that was then re-issued. 
The aircraft with the re-issued number was leased to John & Martha King of the King flight school fame. When Jon & Martha arrived in Santa Barbara in the aircraft local authorities arrested them at gunpoint for aircraft theft! 
AOPA Online: FAA resolves Kings issue
Some heads are going to roll over this boneheaded move.
The aircraft with the re-issued number was leased to John & Martha King of the King flight school fame. When Jon & Martha arrived in Santa Barbara in the aircraft local authorities arrested them at gunpoint for aircraft theft! AOPA Online: FAA resolves Kings issue
Some heads are going to roll over this boneheaded move.
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America's favorite aviation couple... arrested!
I realize that they are probably annoying to most pilots (the dreaded yet effective King videos), but this is an incident that John and Martha King will not forget for a while... 
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A very balanced and mature response on the part of John and Martha King, I'd say.
I had something similar happen to me many years ago. I'd just moved into a new flat - maybe 2 days before. On day 3, about 7am there was a very loud knocking on the door, which I opened to reveal maybe a dozen armed police.
It turned out that the previous flat occupant had just gone on the run after holding up a local bank with a shotgun.
Fortunately, they had the chap's photograph, and he looked nothing like me!
Stuff like this does happen occasionally, and clearly in this case once the mistake was spotted, everybody's been very sensible about it - including the local police chief phoning to apologise. If the lessons the Kings put on their website are learned, then more good than harm will have been done by the incident.
Presumably the standard police procedure is based upon the theory that if they ever have to seize an aeroplane, it's probably been hijacked. Possibly a flawed theory.
G
I had something similar happen to me many years ago. I'd just moved into a new flat - maybe 2 days before. On day 3, about 7am there was a very loud knocking on the door, which I opened to reveal maybe a dozen armed police.
It turned out that the previous flat occupant had just gone on the run after holding up a local bank with a shotgun.
Fortunately, they had the chap's photograph, and he looked nothing like me!
Stuff like this does happen occasionally, and clearly in this case once the mistake was spotted, everybody's been very sensible about it - including the local police chief phoning to apologise. If the lessons the Kings put on their website are learned, then more good than harm will have been done by the incident.
Presumably the standard police procedure is based upon the theory that if they ever have to seize an aeroplane, it's probably been hijacked. Possibly a flawed theory.
G
There will be a new DVD. This from AvWeb:
"The Kings will be providing the department with ideas on how to develop training for officers to intercept aircraft properly. John King also suggested the training could be developed into a national set of standard operating procedures for all police departments."
I can see cops pulling their weapons and shooting the TV.
"The Kings will be providing the department with ideas on how to develop training for officers to intercept aircraft properly. John King also suggested the training could be developed into a national set of standard operating procedures for all police departments."
I can see cops pulling their weapons and shooting the TV.
There's no egg on anyone's face. The police acted properly in response to the information at hand.
The Kings were not arrested, and there was no false arrest. A standard felony stop was conducted, the problem addressed, and the matter settled. The police responded properly.
The Kings were not arrested, and there was no false arrest. A standard felony stop was conducted, the problem addressed, and the matter settled. The police responded properly.
"not arrested" ? That's a squibble of words. Innocent people were held at point of gun - apparently through lazy administrative staff - welcome to the land of freedom! Bah. The USA was once an enlightening example to the world, today that's over and done with.
On a sidenote: my own country is far from famous for simple efficient administration - yet we do have a policy to leave one registration with one aircraft, even if it rejoins the register after a stay abroad. Only after several years of disuse can a registration be re-used for another aircraft. No so daft, 't would seem.
On a sidenote: my own country is far from famous for simple efficient administration - yet we do have a policy to leave one registration with one aircraft, even if it rejoins the register after a stay abroad. Only after several years of disuse can a registration be re-used for another aircraft. No so daft, 't would seem.
I do not know the US law, that's a fact. Nor do I want to, after reading this story. A country that makes this kind of situation lawful, almost ordinary, has only my disgust. Back to the days of Stalin, is it? His actions too were always strictly lawful!
Why can't you simply say "This should not have happened, lessons should be learned to avoid it happening again. And these innocent people have a right to apologies, if not material compensation, for having been accused and held without serious grounds." ?
But perhaps we had better stick to aviation. With this proviso: I have dreamed of flying onto OSH for a long while - I'll stop dreaming now.
Why can't you simply say "This should not have happened, lessons should be learned to avoid it happening again. And these innocent people have a right to apologies, if not material compensation, for having been accused and held without serious grounds." ?
But perhaps we had better stick to aviation. With this proviso: I have dreamed of flying onto OSH for a long while - I'll stop dreaming now.
I was never throwing stones at the acting police - it was clear the fault was never theirs. Indeed it was not even for them to apologise, though they may have. If so, the better for them. Yet fault there was. This should not have happened.
Neither am I saying this could not happen elsewhere. I have personally created havoc in IT systems that annoyed many people - **** happens, and will continue to happen.
What WAS worrying and disgusting me is that some of the postings here sounded as if though such a mishap should be considered normal and acceptable. That would be an open invitation to Big Brother - who is already far too much alive in the USA, as I understand from far away.
But again, this is politics, which we ought not really to discuss here. I will leave it at this.
Neither am I saying this could not happen elsewhere. I have personally created havoc in IT systems that annoyed many people - **** happens, and will continue to happen.
What WAS worrying and disgusting me is that some of the postings here sounded as if though such a mishap should be considered normal and acceptable. That would be an open invitation to Big Brother - who is already far too much alive in the USA, as I understand from far away.
But again, this is politics, which we ought not really to discuss here. I will leave it at this.
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Had exactly the same with with Boston Police after we hired a Hertz car at JFK which was reported stolen by Hertz, recovered but police not updated.
Our driver arrested at gunpoint and had a night in the cells only being released after intervention by UK embassy because he had an "I" visa with diplomatic immunity.
But he now has a Hertz gold card giving free rental for life.
Our driver arrested at gunpoint and had a night in the cells only being released after intervention by UK embassy because he had an "I" visa with diplomatic immunity.
But he now has a Hertz gold card giving free rental for life.
Last edited by Vizsla; 2nd Sep 2010 at 17:22.
"not arrested" ? That's a squibble of words. Innocent people were held at point of gun - apparently through lazy administrative staff - welcome to the land of freedom!
The issue had nothing to do with laziness. The FAA reissued a registration that had become stale. Law enforcement was not aware of this change, and a mechanism did not exist to communicate the issue...any more than changing one's address at the post office will automatically change it with the driver's bureau.
The scenario worked out very well, in fact, given that a report of a potentially stolen airplane was acted upon quickly and decisively.
Cessna's are popular theft items for use in mexican drug operations. For the police to react quickly and professionally as they did speaks well for the police. There was no disgrace to be found in the way this matter was handled.
That the Kings received an apology none the less was good grace on the part of the police, but hardly a necessity, as the police did no wrong.
Avoid imitations
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My 8 year old son and myself were once "detained" at an airport. On arrival at our holiday destination we were held at the immigration desk for some time. The immigration officer was very nervous, I could see him sweating and his voice was strained as he phoned for assistance. My wife and our other two children had passed through the adjacent desk, just ahead of us. I was told I was not allowed to move or to speak to her, nor was she allowed to remain in the immigration hall. Other officers appeared and we were closely escorted away to a side office for questioning. No-one would explain what was happening, or why we had been detained; in fact I was told to answer their questions and not to ask them.
They kept asking which one of us was which, although they had both of our passports in front of them, so it should have been quite obvious. They also wanted to know where we had come from, where we were going, why we were there and when we had last left that country (it was our first and only visit).
After about twenty minutes of this repetitive questioning (I think they were hoping I would crack and change my story) a phone rang and after one of them answered they told me we were free to go. No apology or explanation. My wife was a bit frantic by the time we found her.
Similar thing happened on departure from another airport in the same country at the end of the three week holiday; although this time were were questioned for a shorter time. Still no explanation was given. All very worrying and intimidating.
I later did some research and discovered that someone with the same name as my 8 year old son was wanted on suspicion of mass murder in that country.
My son strongly insists that he never did it. I tend to believe him as he had never been to New Zealand before, or since.
They kept asking which one of us was which, although they had both of our passports in front of them, so it should have been quite obvious. They also wanted to know where we had come from, where we were going, why we were there and when we had last left that country (it was our first and only visit).
After about twenty minutes of this repetitive questioning (I think they were hoping I would crack and change my story) a phone rang and after one of them answered they told me we were free to go. No apology or explanation. My wife was a bit frantic by the time we found her.
Similar thing happened on departure from another airport in the same country at the end of the three week holiday; although this time were were questioned for a shorter time. Still no explanation was given. All very worrying and intimidating.
I later did some research and discovered that someone with the same name as my 8 year old son was wanted on suspicion of mass murder in that country.
My son strongly insists that he never did it. I tend to believe him as he had never been to New Zealand before, or since.
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It is almost inconceivable that in the UK or indeed Europe this scenario would have been played out at the end of a gun. The more violent and drug ridden a society is then I guess the more likely it is that this will happen, as every suspected offender will be assumed to be carrying firearms and prepared to use them. The more extreme the law enforcement agencies' reactions to an incident then the more reliable their intelligence should be. What is surprising here is that there appears to have been no cross checking of their information. This is far from the first time that police or other agencies have acted on inaccurate information when it would have been relatively easy to check the integrity of the information they had (and I'm not just talking about the US here - slavish belief by all manner of government agencies in what the computer says seems to be fairly universal).
The "we did nothing wrong" attitude of the police is to my mind not acceptable, unless you live in one of those diminishing number of states where the law is what the government says it is. It would only have taken one trigger happy cop (and there are plenty of those about) for this to have become a tragedy and all because they failed to use their brains and actually make certain that their information was sound. This was after all not some anonymous tip off but a piece of information which could be checked elsewhere very easily (as SoCal said, the FAA database was 100% accurate). It is even more forgivable that the same thing had happened in the resent past with the same aircraft.
The "we did nothing wrong" attitude of the police is to my mind not acceptable, unless you live in one of those diminishing number of states where the law is what the government says it is. It would only have taken one trigger happy cop (and there are plenty of those about) for this to have become a tragedy and all because they failed to use their brains and actually make certain that their information was sound. This was after all not some anonymous tip off but a piece of information which could be checked elsewhere very easily (as SoCal said, the FAA database was 100% accurate). It is even more forgivable that the same thing had happened in the resent past with the same aircraft.
It is almost inconceivable that in the UK or indeed Europe this scenario would have been played out at the end of a gun.
It would only have taken one trigger happy cop (and there are plenty of those about) for this to have become a tragedy and all because they failed to use their brains and actually make certain that their information was sound. This was after all not some anonymous tip off but a piece of information which could be checked elsewhere very easily (as SoCal said, the FAA database was 100% accurate).
Law enforcement acted correctly in detaining the aircraft and occupants until a determination could positively be made that no crime was in progress, and that the occupants were not guilty of a crime.
No law was broken in this detention, no policy was violated, and all parties acted professionally and in accordance with approved guidelines.
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Ah, yes...the UK, where law enforcement consists of yelling "Halt, or I shall yell 'Halt!' again!"
I am not sure I understand any of that -