Apple iPad - ideal aviation companion?

[Oldpilot55]

I use an Archos 9 tablet running Memory Map CAA charts with a Bluetooth GPS c/w EGNOS so accuracy within a couple of metres. I still prefer my Garmin 495 but its early days.

[IO540]

The mapping on any Garmin is crap, however, compared to a tablet running the real VFR charts.

[Oldpilot55]

Regardless of the quality of mapping - I've spent 41 years of my life using maps and air photos professionally - its situational awareness. I think Garmins do this pretty well. I use the two together, MM and Garmin but I do prefer the 495. It becomes a very personal choice. Have we not had numerous arguments on whether North Up or Track up is best? It is how folk visualise the information in front of them. Some lucky folk can visualise how VORs and NDBs work without the benefit of a moving map.

[Justiciar]

The mapping on any Garmin is crap, however, compared to a tablet running the real VFR charts.

I tend not to fly with GPS these days. When I had my Pioneer it was fitted witha very nice AvMap EKP-IV. The big advantage is the ability to specify detail at any aprticular zoom level so as to unclutter the screen. Having said that, I never quite got used to the rendering of features, particularly town. When I do use any form of GPS it is a small Flymap rebranded RoadAngel running the half mil charts. These have not been updated since flymap pulled out of the UK before returning with their new UK agent, but the unit is very good for confirming position as a back up to map and eyeball. Despite its small size it is quite readable and it also has a holder I can strap around my knee (about the only way of using it in the Chipmunk!). The one thing it can't do is take an upload from Navbox and I have to use the dedicated software, meaning I need to plot a route twice !!

It really is a matter of what you are comfortable with. If I was buying today I would probably go for Airbox as having PC software to draw you route is to me essential.

[dublinpilot]

Justiciar,

I haven't tried, but I suspect that PocketFMS would run on the FlyMap branded Road Angel.

It too would give you the ability to choose what detail is shown on each zoom level.

And PC flight planning is seemlessly intergrated into the mobile device. So flight planning on the pc can easily be transferred to the mobile device.

There is a fully functioning free trial on the website if you want to take a look and see.

[Geege]

Just out of interest - Are there any apps for the iPad for a U.K. based pilot?

All on the links refer to U.S charts, etc..

[Justiciar]

I haven't tried, but I suspect that PocketFMS would run on the FlyMap branded Road Angel.

Thanks dublinpilot. I did try it a while ago and couldn't get it to work. I may give it another go. What is the view on PocketFMS over say Navbox? Is it the fact that it will run on PDAs?

[Captain Smithy]

To be fair I could see a good purpose for a ruggedised version for serious IFR use, a la EFB, but in a VFR light single for weekend puddle-jumping I think it would prove more of a distraction that anything else.

I try to keep things simple... also helps keep on the right side of the MTOW

Smithy

[Shunter]

Worth remembering that the non-3G iPad doesn't have GPS.... Reason being that as mentioned above the Apple kit uses AGPS which requires a cellular signal to speed up lock time. The iPhone AGPS is fairly reasonable in-flight even considering that you'll lose signal regularly; it only needs a cell signal for a few seconds to establish an AGPS lock, then it'll continue on without the assisted bit. However you can't put it in flight mode; that disables the GPS functionality.

I'd use it for flight planning (it has a Citrix client available for those with such facilities to run Windoze apps), but doubt I'd use it for in-flight nav.

[IO540]

A built-in GPS is no good. One has to use a remote (bluetooth connected) GPS.

This should deal with the 3G/GPS power-down tie-in; it should be possible to power-down the 3G radio and still operate the bluetooth radio - no?? If not then it's useless because it would be IMHO unwise to be flying an IAP with the 3G radio trying to connect... and it will connect when you are low down.

A Citrix client is for connecting (AIUI) to a Citrix server and it then acts as a remote desktop with a browser client, no? Anyway, the connection would have to be wifi/GPRS/3G which takes us back to having to have internet connectivity for running the flight planning app, which is basically useless. One cannot usefully run Navbox or Flitestar over a remote desktop connection (done it today over a 448k bits/sec link). For flight planning, the application has to run natively on the I-tampon.

I wonder what flight planning apps European pilots would use. Navbox has by far the biggest market share among non-IR pilots, and most pilots are non-IR. Flitestar is probably the most common airways planning tool.

Would FlightPlanPro run on the I-tampon? It would need to, for this device to be any good for IFR, and IFR is a major application area for an approach plate reader, because VFR pilots don't use approach plates (they use Pooleys, etc).

In the USA it's much easier, which is why we are seeing the various apps emerge.

[what next]

Hello!

A built-in GPS is no good. One has to use a remote (bluetooth connected) GPS.

Why? Just yesterday, I demonstrated the GPS capabilities of my mobile phone (Samsung Omnia) to a colleague in the cockpit. It works nicely, even when lying on the centre console. The street navigation software even managed to follow roads at 400+ kts for brief periods of time...

I am convinced that an iPad with built-in GPS module and JeppView installed would be the perfect EFB. And at a fraction of the price of all other EFBs currenty awailable.

Regards, Max

[IO540]

It's a question of reception reliability.

I have a collection of GPS devices, which range from excellent (a Garmin 496) through to "OK once it gets a fix and for that it needs to be left standing still for a few minutes" kind of stuff, to absolutely crap (most items with a fast processor next to the GPS receiver, e.g. a LOOX N560 PDA which can take up to 1 hour to get a fix in a moving car, or a Thuraya SG2520 satphone).

The Garmin will work fairly well in an all-metal cockpit but occassionally (see countless forum posts) even it drops the ball.

In an all-plastic plane which is VFR-only (no metal mesh in the roof, etc) these things work better, of course.

But IMHO only a fool will rely on a GPS whose antenna has anything less than a very good sky view.

There are also interference issues from other equipment and having a remote antenna with a strong signal deals with that well.

My yoke-mounted G496 is fed from a wired antenna which is on top of the panel. It is 100% rock solid. My LS800 tablet runs from a bluetooth GPS receiver which is wired (RF connection) to a conventional rooftop GPS antenna; this is rock solid also.

[Shunter]

IO... Citrix doesn't have to merely do remote desktops (although it can, after all that's where MS felched the tech for Terminal Services from; its poor cousin). Its strength is the ability to publish individual applications and cut out all the unnecessary crap and have them run using the performance of the server on which they reside whilst a mere graphical projection of the app is sent to the client device. Hence I set up publish a load of apps on my Citrix server, then open the Citrix app on my iPad and just tap for Notamplot, JeppView, Navbox etc...

As I said, the data connection requirements make that infeasible for flight use, but for planning it's almost certainly quicker than dragging out a traditional laptop.

[IO540]

That really suprises me... that one can get acceptable user interface performance over a GPRS link which is usually only about 20kbits/sec.

3G/UMTS etc should be better (though IME nothing like the real app IF it has a colour-rich pane in it, like a decent flight planning prog will have) but 3G coverage is still poor outside of busy city areas etc.

Obviously this depends on where one hangs out but IME there is no 3G at least 50% of the time.

BTW have you tried running AFPEx over Citrix? It certainly doesn't work usably over PC/Anywhere; the java UI breaks up.

[MacBoero]

This might be of interest:

Briefly: Pilot logbook software, Carbonite adds iPad support | MacNN

Although Sheald's website (SHEALD Incorporated) hasn't been updated with anything about it yet.

[vanHorck]

Don't use the iPad anywhere near or above FL100 cos it won't work, just like the iPhone my father had, which failed at altitude and came back to life when descending from the mountains.

Apple - iPad - View the technical specifications for iPad.

As you ll see both versions have a GPS btw

[S-Works]

Never had a problem with the iPhone at altitude and I spend rather a lot of time above 10,000ft. The 10,000ft limit is an arbitrary number chosen for certification purposes rather than a true technical limit. The drive is solid state, no moving parts to stick.

I would suggest your fathers problem was unrelated.

[Anonystude]

I have photos from my iPhone, taken at FL400 (20-odd thousand ft cabin alt). GPS even worked.

[renrut]

20000ft Cabin altitude. Were you on oxygen?

[Shunter]

have you tried running AFPEx over Citrix?

No, but I will. Standby. Its ability to provide usable service over very low bandwidth is mighty impressive and will easily waste the likes of PC Anywhere, VNC and even RDP (which although originally Citrix technology is 15 years old and has barely been touched by MS since then).