Currency and passengers

[Whopity]

So I believe you can jump in with him, log three circuits as PIC, while your friend does the take-offs and landings, then you switch command and he logs the time from then on, having gained his experience.

Art 255

‘Passenger’ means a person other than a member of the crew;

The minute you swap roles in a Single crew aeroplane, you become a passenger, and the other pilot must have 90 day currency. If one of the pilots is an instructor then you can both legally be crew and neither need to be 90 day current.

[Lister Noble]

I agree

Life is about being honest with oneself.
Thank to all for the replies,a passenger is a passenger in this case,and I was a passenger.
Well would have been after the pilot had done his 3 t'o's and landings.
And if we had got the bl**dy thing going.
Cloud too low today,hope to fly the Cub tomorrow.
Lister

[Rod1]

“Flying is about being honest with yourself.”

Agreed!

“... but why the fancy pants. Just do it properly ”

But what is properly? This is a new fangled JAA rule that has added nothing to safety (according to the official review of EASA). I am lucky that I fly far more than the minimum in daylight, but the new rules caused me to give up night flying after many years of safe aviating under the old rules.

Rod1

[BackPacker]

The minute you swap roles in a Single crew aeroplane, you become a passenger, and the other pilot must have 90 day currency.

But that's the point. You do NOT swap roles. You remain the PIC, while the passenger is the sole manipulator of the controls.

I'm not saying it's wise to do so, particularly not without instructor training and the resulting ability to do a last-minute recovery. You also might have some explaining to do in case the passenger screws up and you do get into trouble.

But would it be legal? Can a passenger be the "sole manipulator of the controls", for the purpose of gaining/maintaining currency? And on the side: how do you log this?

neither need to be 90 day current.

In case of an instructor acting as PIC, and the student manipulating the controls to gain/maintain currency, I would assume that the instructor/PIC would need to be 90 day current. But indeed, the currency rules talk about carrying passenger and since the student is, legally speaking, not a passenger but a member of the flight crew, is there really no additional rule that says the instructor has to be 90-day current in this case?

[Mark1234]

@BackPacker - sorry, my mention of the right hand seat was colloquial - I wasn't suggesting that the seat had any relevance to pilot status.

@hhobit - safest advice, don't take passengers - 90 day currency is just for carrying pax, nothing stopping you flying solo if you're comfortable (and hopefully realistically so). Really, 3 circuits need not take that long, then all legal again..

@Rod1 - it's not just JAA. I came from a non JAA, ICAO land-down-under, 90 days day, 90 days night, entirely separate. Plus a flight of >1hr at night within the previous 6 months. It's a bear to keep up, but rightly so IMHO (seperate debate).

But hey, that's a picnic compared to the 28day currency *in their a/c* that most 'clubs' round this part of the world insist on..

[robin]

“... but why the fancy pants. Just do it properly ”

But what is properly? This is a new fangled JAA rule that has added nothing to safety (according to the official review of EASA). I am lucky that I fly far more than the minimum in daylight, but the new rules caused me to give up night flying after many years of safe aviating under the old rules.

Rod1

Like you I fly far more than the minimum hours and I agree the statistics do not support it adding to safety.

My point is simply this - if the rules permit (group or club rules) then if you are ok about flying your 3 landings and takeoffs solo, then do it.

If you feel nervous or rusty, then get some instruction or assistance first.

BUT - be honest with yourself. Think what it would be like to have your descendants reading about you in the AAIB report. Something like the guy in the PA28 -140 taking his passengers with him. Worse, the fact your estate will take a huge hit as the insurers will walk away.

[Maoraigh1]

This rule was quite rightly brought in after accidents with non-current pilots, who had non-pilot passengers. Unfortunately, it prevents a non-current group member flying with a current member as pax. If the aircraft is a taildragger, there may be no locally available taildragger instructor.
While both are equally illegal, there is a moral difference between carrying an innocent passenger, and carrying a passenger who has flown several hours in that aircraft, as PIC, in the past week.

[flybymike]

This rule was quite rightly brought in after accidents with non-current pilots, who had non-pilot passengers.

Bolleaux. The rule was brought in, in pursuance of continued pointless JAA/EASA regulation which will ultimately strangle GA to death for a proven 100% zero safety benefit until the EU bureaucrats who come up with this crap eventually have nothing left to regulate and disappear up their own a*ses.

The same goes for biennial flights, night ratings, annual MEP tests and all the other stuff we managed just as safely without for decades. ( And now they want periodic retesting by examiner as well....) It's no wonder we cant encourage people to enter GA or stay there after qualifying, or that 75% of pilots chuck it all in after the first 5 years.