Risk of spinning from a sideslip?
I thought it was a K21 but it may have been a Puchacz or a Grob Acro. It was about 25 years ago (with DerekP)
Puchhaz and Spins
Mention has been made that spinning from a sideslip is just about impossible, but the Puch may be a special case. Certainly it will happily spin out of a co-ordinated turn.
Derek Piggott in, I believe, Going Solo asserts that a glider will not spin or stall from a 45 degree turn because the airflow against the tailplane comes at an angle that does not allow it to generate sufficient downforce to stall the wing.
It takes some muscle, but the Puch does spin from a 45 degree banked turn with two aboard. Remember though that the Puch is aerobatic; so, is designed with more elevator authority than normal gliders.
Derek Piggott in, I believe, Going Solo asserts that a glider will not spin or stall from a 45 degree turn because the airflow against the tailplane comes at an angle that does not allow it to generate sufficient downforce to stall the wing.
It takes some muscle, but the Puch does spin from a 45 degree banked turn with two aboard. Remember though that the Puch is aerobatic; so, is designed with more elevator authority than normal gliders.
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Originally Posted by miserlou
Without the addition of power a descent rate would be required to maintain airspeed. In this condition the nose may be lower than in straight and level flight but the datum (flightpath) has changed.
As I half suspected, we're not really disagreeing - as much a matter of understanding each other as the subject, which is why arguing on 'tinternet tends to become cyclic & futile
On a slightly related note - if you're flying the decathlon anywhere around the south east (uk) would you mind dropping me an PM..
It takes some muscle, but the Puch does spin from a 45 degree banked turn with two aboard.
As to whether it will spin from a sideslip all I can say is that I never managed it.
Ratherbeflying:
I can personally confirm that the Puchacz, Bulldog, T67A, T67M, Cap10b/c and a variety of others will all spin from a sideslip with only mild abuse. As I said before, it's a perfectly safe, simple and useful manoeuvre if flown correctly.
Piper.classique:
We may know each other. I was an instructor at Lasham on Friday evenings and Saturdays from roughly 1984 to 1994; I also flew the tugs on Wednesday evenings.
Last autumn I spent some time at Gap-Tallard and now see why Brits move to France ... an aviation paradise!
HFD
I can personally confirm that the Puchacz, Bulldog, T67A, T67M, Cap10b/c and a variety of others will all spin from a sideslip with only mild abuse. As I said before, it's a perfectly safe, simple and useful manoeuvre if flown correctly.
Piper.classique:
We may know each other. I was an instructor at Lasham on Friday evenings and Saturdays from roughly 1984 to 1994; I also flew the tugs on Wednesday evenings.
Last autumn I spent some time at Gap-Tallard and now see why Brits move to France
... an aviation paradise!HFD
Piper.classique:
We may know each other. I was an instructor at Lasham on Friday evenings and Saturdays from roughly 1984 to 1994; I also flew the tugs on Wednesday evenings.
We may know each other. I was an instructor at Lasham on Friday evenings and Saturdays from roughly 1984 to 1994; I also flew the tugs on Wednesday evenings.
I've learnt not to make very many general comments about spinning. In Australia, spin training approval is type specific and our (my) briefings stress that we're flying a Decathlon (usually for me these days, I have 6 examples to play with) and characteristics of other types may (will, in some types I mention) be different. Examples of some types may even behave differently eg different wing rigging in a Decathlon or a rebuilt leading edge on a Cessna 150.
We routinely sideslip the Decathlons on final so I show instructor trainees what happens if grossly mishandled. Plenty of warning, shaking and rattling usually. Sometimes a slow roll to level. Only one indicated a departure into the spin but fairly slowly and relaxing on the controls tamed it.
On the other hand they generally go very neatly into a spin from a skidded turn. Also from a mishandled roll off the top - easier to spin upright but they will go inverted if the student is really hamfisted.
PS Mark1234, I generally agree with what you say.
We routinely sideslip the Decathlons on final so I show instructor trainees what happens if grossly mishandled. Plenty of warning, shaking and rattling usually. Sometimes a slow roll to level. Only one indicated a departure into the spin but fairly slowly and relaxing on the controls tamed it.
On the other hand they generally go very neatly into a spin from a skidded turn. Also from a mishandled roll off the top - easier to spin upright but they will go inverted if the student is really hamfisted.
PS Mark1234, I generally agree with what you say.
