Man killed in Norfolk plane crash
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“We will be looking at the site, trying to work out how it hit the crop sprayer machine and how it ended up where it did,”
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I recall witnessing a collision between a landing Blanik glider and a farmer's Volvo back in the 70's... the farmer was driving across the active runway just as the Blanik was landing... a land vehicle has massive blind spot with regards to aircraft and the glider was totally comitted.
On this occassion the damage consisted of a severely bent metal skinned glider, the central door post of the Volvo was pushed back a couple of inches in the impact and the front seat pilot suffered a broken lower leg.
Let's learn from this incident and be very aware of this risk when operating in and out of agricultural airfields.
It goes without saying I sympathise with all parties and I have really enjoyed my past visits to Seething.
On this occassion the damage consisted of a severely bent metal skinned glider, the central door post of the Volvo was pushed back a couple of inches in the impact and the front seat pilot suffered a broken lower leg.
Let's learn from this incident and be very aware of this risk when operating in and out of agricultural airfields.
It goes without saying I sympathise with all parties and I have really enjoyed my past visits to Seething.
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No doubt the AAIB needs to choose their words carefully.
Hopefully they will make some sort of safety recommendation to prevent this sort of situation in future.
Without coming to any speculation about the Norfolk crash what can reasonably be done (as a pilot) to minimise the possibility of a vehicle, person or animal suddenly moving on to the runway?
Hopefully they will make some sort of safety recommendation to prevent this sort of situation in future.
Without coming to any speculation about the Norfolk crash what can reasonably be done (as a pilot) to minimise the possibility of a vehicle, person or animal suddenly moving on to the runway?
Last edited by DavidHoul52; 31st Oct 2008 at 20:16.
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>>>what can reasonably be done (as a pilot) to minimise the possibility of a vehicle, person or animal suddenly moving on to the runway? <<<
There is nothing you can do... even turning on your landing lights won't make you visible through a car/lorry/tractor roof.
What you can do is broaden your field of view... carry out cross scans across the windscreen and side windows thereby broadening your peripheral vision. Also physically move your head in order to alter the perception of the ground.
Do not just focus ahead on the landing point, try to observe and anticipate any possible conflictions.
Please stay alert and don't become complacent... easy for me to type this, I have been as guilty as anyone in this department and incidents like this make you realise what can happen.
There is nothing you can do... even turning on your landing lights won't make you visible through a car/lorry/tractor roof.
What you can do is broaden your field of view... carry out cross scans across the windscreen and side windows thereby broadening your peripheral vision. Also physically move your head in order to alter the perception of the ground.
Do not just focus ahead on the landing point, try to observe and anticipate any possible conflictions.
Please stay alert and don't become complacent... easy for me to type this, I have been as guilty as anyone in this department and incidents like this make you realise what can happen.
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The name of the critically injured person has previously been disclosed in some media for those with genuine reasons to find out.
It may also be that his family at this time, would prefer not to have it splashed about on forums such as this.
May we please respect their privacy.
Suffice to say however he was a very seasoned and professional aviator who was extremely well respected in a couple of areas in which he has had significant experience over the many years I have had the pleasure of knowing him.
I'm sure we all wish him well and hope for a speedy recovery, our thoughts are not only with his family, but also with the family of the other gentleman.
It may also be that his family at this time, would prefer not to have it splashed about on forums such as this.
May we please respect their privacy.
Suffice to say however he was a very seasoned and professional aviator who was extremely well respected in a couple of areas in which he has had significant experience over the many years I have had the pleasure of knowing him.
I'm sure we all wish him well and hope for a speedy recovery, our thoughts are not only with his family, but also with the family of the other gentleman.
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"No doubt the AAIB needs to choose their words carefully.
Hopefully they will make some sort of safety recommendation to prevent this sort of situation in future.
Without coming to any speculation about the Norfolk crash what can reasonably be done (as a pilot) to minimise the possibility of a vehicle, person or animal suddenly moving on to the runway?"
I hope everyone learns from a tragic accident but there would appear to be nothing to suggest the tractor was on or crossing the runway in this case. What sort of safety recommendations could be made, security fence the entire runway with controlled gates? What about the surounding fields etc, are they also to be subject to "recomendations"?
Accidents are accidents and as tragic as they are let us just please learn from the (possible) mistakes of others and get on with life and stop regulating.
Hopefully they will make some sort of safety recommendation to prevent this sort of situation in future.
Without coming to any speculation about the Norfolk crash what can reasonably be done (as a pilot) to minimise the possibility of a vehicle, person or animal suddenly moving on to the runway?"
I hope everyone learns from a tragic accident but there would appear to be nothing to suggest the tractor was on or crossing the runway in this case. What sort of safety recommendations could be made, security fence the entire runway with controlled gates? What about the surounding fields etc, are they also to be subject to "recomendations"?
Accidents are accidents and as tragic as they are let us just please learn from the (possible) mistakes of others and get on with life and stop regulating.
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You are correct... there is no evidence whether the tractor was on or crossing the runway and I apologise if anyone thinks I was jumping to conclusions or showing a lack of respect to the parties.
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I was not jumping to conclusions. Just thinking about what might happen.
I also wish to make the point that how ever good a lookout a pilot makes there is nothing that can be done by the pilot if an object moves on to the runway at the last moment. The AAIB has previously suggested making changes at some aerodromes. Possibilities off top of my head are removing hedges or keeping them to a certain height (where appropriate. Notices on the ground to remind people of the dangers. That sort of thing. Over regulating is one thing, sensible precautions are another.
I take it Seething is not a farm strip.
The information given in the reports isn't sufficient to learn anything beyond knowing that it's risky around "agricultural" airfields (whatever that means - even Heathrow has agricultural land near by) and one needs to keep a good lookout. Keeping one's lookout wider than just narrowly focusing on the approach is excellent advice when it comes to other air traffic but I don't see how failure to do so could result in a collision with a slow moving object on the ground.
Talking about anticipating possible conflicts - the helicopters frequently hover next to runways scare the hell out of me. No doubt they only move with approval with ATC (if there is one).
I also wish to make the point that how ever good a lookout a pilot makes there is nothing that can be done by the pilot if an object moves on to the runway at the last moment. The AAIB has previously suggested making changes at some aerodromes. Possibilities off top of my head are removing hedges or keeping them to a certain height (where appropriate. Notices on the ground to remind people of the dangers. That sort of thing. Over regulating is one thing, sensible precautions are another.
I take it Seething is not a farm strip.
The information given in the reports isn't sufficient to learn anything beyond knowing that it's risky around "agricultural" airfields (whatever that means - even Heathrow has agricultural land near by) and one needs to keep a good lookout. Keeping one's lookout wider than just narrowly focusing on the approach is excellent advice when it comes to other air traffic but I don't see how failure to do so could result in a collision with a slow moving object on the ground.
Talking about anticipating possible conflicts - the helicopters frequently hover next to runways scare the hell out of me. No doubt they only move with approval with ATC (if there is one).
Last edited by DavidHoul52; 1st Nov 2008 at 12:25.
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The boom-sprayer WAS NOT crossing the runway. It remained on the field to the east of the 24 threshold.
It had been operating parallel to the north of the runway for some time and then turned south crossing the extended centreline to rv with a tractor towing a gasoil bowser for an intended refuel to the south side of the extended centreline. The ag equipment had every right to be where it was.
PLEASE STOP SPECULATING. For those of us involved, it is painful enough without having to endure ill-thought speculation.
My thoughts are with Collette, Francesca and Josh and I am really rooting for Steve, my best friend. His family are being well supported as they continue their vigil at Addenbrookes. He is being ventilated and is due for the next in a series of operations on Monday.
I implore you all to stop Monday-morning quarter-backing and await the outcome from the AAIB. The two senior AAIB inspectors whom I met yesterday are doing a difficult job in a very sensitive manner and I thank them for that.
Stik
It had been operating parallel to the north of the runway for some time and then turned south crossing the extended centreline to rv with a tractor towing a gasoil bowser for an intended refuel to the south side of the extended centreline. The ag equipment had every right to be where it was.
PLEASE STOP SPECULATING. For those of us involved, it is painful enough without having to endure ill-thought speculation.
My thoughts are with Collette, Francesca and Josh and I am really rooting for Steve, my best friend. His family are being well supported as they continue their vigil at Addenbrookes. He is being ventilated and is due for the next in a series of operations on Monday.
I implore you all to stop Monday-morning quarter-backing and await the outcome from the AAIB. The two senior AAIB inspectors whom I met yesterday are doing a difficult job in a very sensitive manner and I thank them for that.
Stik
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The boom-sprayer WAS NOT crossing the runway
No disrespect to anyone intended.
SticknRuda, I certainly hope your friend pulls through.
Last edited by DavidHoul52; 1st Nov 2008 at 16:28.
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A very valid post Stik,
I wasn't going to post anymore on here until all the facts are in the public domain.
There are many airfields around here with agricultural operations taking place alongside airstrips,and these co-exist quite happily and safely.
There are three families directly involved in this incident,don't forget the tractor driver who has been severely traumatised by this tragic accident.
Please can we keep speculation out of this, until the true facts are known.
Lister
I wasn't going to post anymore on here until all the facts are in the public domain.
There are many airfields around here with agricultural operations taking place alongside airstrips,and these co-exist quite happily and safely.
There are three families directly involved in this incident,don't forget the tractor driver who has been severely traumatised by this tragic accident.
Please can we keep speculation out of this, until the true facts are known.
Lister
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I am really rooting for Steve, my best friend. His family are being well supported as they continue their vigil at Addenbrookes. He is being ventilated and is due for the next in a series of operations on Monday.
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Without coming to any speculation about the Norfolk crash what can reasonably be done (as a pilot) to minimise the possibility of a vehicle, person or animal suddenly moving on to the runway?
Stik - hope your mate makes it ok.
Stiknruda posted so very well.
Such an unfortunate accident, and living close to Seething and knowing what an excellent place it is to be at and fly in to, my heart goes out to all concerned.
I truly believe that the time for any speculation is ended, and a line be now drawn.
Such an unfortunate accident, and living close to Seething and knowing what an excellent place it is to be at and fly in to, my heart goes out to all concerned.
I truly believe that the time for any speculation is ended, and a line be now drawn.
Accident - Noun - Literally, a befalling; an event that takes place without one's foresight or expectation; an undesigned, sudden, and unexpected event; chance; contingency; often, an undesigned and unforeseen occurrence of an afflictive or unfortunate character; a casualty; a mishap; as, to die by an accident.
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tragic day
Stik, well posted and lets hope the quaterbacks stay in their armchairs and turn their attention to trivia. The facts will speak for themselves but in the meantime, prayers are at full N1 for Steve and ian's family. All the airbus guys are rooting for you old man, so hang in there and we look forward to a shed load of beers in the 'gay' bar when you're back on all fours.