Radio Calls
The Original Foot
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Radio Calls
Following Sheffield's closure. I am now doing some flying out of Netherthorpe. Really enjoying it! Frequently, however, there is nobody in the tower, so they operate a pilot to pilot communication. So somebody coming overhead requesting airfield information, my instructor prodded the radion 'Runway in use 24, QFE 1006'. I had a chat with him about it and he said don't get over excited about making too many calls, but just make calls as usual, and sometimes you won't get an answer. Just wondered what the 'official' line is. If I am on my own doing some circuits, would I tell anybody joining what I consider to be the active runway?
(Not having had to decide which runway I was going to use from scratch previously, I don't know how I feel about that....)
I would appreciate any other thoughts and comments.
(Not having had to decide which runway I was going to use from scratch previously, I don't know how I feel about that....)
I would appreciate any other thoughts and comments.
niknak
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I would suggest that, even if no one else is on frequency, you make the same calls you would make at an airfield with FISO or ATC facilities, i.e. entering the runway, joining downwind, downwind, final for rwy....etc.
If another aircraft calls, transmit your position in accordance with the above.
Don't forget that, not withstanding local club/airfield regulations, air ground radio operators or other pilots, have no authority to issue any instructions, so stick to making calls which are relavant to yourself and other pilots, more importantly, listen out and keep a good look out, especially if non radio aircraft are accepted.
If another aircraft calls, transmit your position in accordance with the above.
Don't forget that, not withstanding local club/airfield regulations, air ground radio operators or other pilots, have no authority to issue any instructions, so stick to making calls which are relavant to yourself and other pilots, more importantly, listen out and keep a good look out, especially if non radio aircraft are accepted.
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Have a read of page 183 in CAP 413 to see the calls you'd normally make. Simply insert blank spaces for the FISO responses (as there won't be any!) and you won't go far wrong. If you're returning to the field and don't know which runway to choose, look at the prevailing wind for nearby airfields, and/or do an overhead join and eyeball the windsock on your way round and choose the best runway for you (usually into wind). If there is a 5kt tailwind, I may personally consider landing the "wrong" way if it meant a much shorter taxi and there was no other traffic. It's vital then that everyone in the ATZ is making calls just so I don't face someone making an approach for the reciprocal runway!
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Always worth making a few calls. First, it keeps you in practice and second, it tells anybody who might be about (that you may not have seen) where you and what your intentions are.
C23
C23
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You should be making all the calls you normally would. As mentioned, you get practice and it lets everyone know what you are doing!
With regard to talking to people...if you are in the circuit and someone calls up and they get no answer, there is nothing to stop you telling them what runway YOU are using, and what QFE you have in YOUR aircraft! Doing that gives them a rough idea of whats going on and where you are, and anyone else if you know, ultimately though they have to make the decision as to what they want to do regarding landing runway, and at least if you give them a vague idea of QFE they arent going to be flying at a significantly different height to you in the circuit.
Also, do an overhead join and look at the signals square, thats what its there for, once in the overhead, you can work out where you need to be.
C250
With regard to talking to people...if you are in the circuit and someone calls up and they get no answer, there is nothing to stop you telling them what runway YOU are using, and what QFE you have in YOUR aircraft! Doing that gives them a rough idea of whats going on and where you are, and anyone else if you know, ultimately though they have to make the decision as to what they want to do regarding landing runway, and at least if you give them a vague idea of QFE they arent going to be flying at a significantly different height to you in the circuit.
Also, do an overhead join and look at the signals square, thats what its there for, once in the overhead, you can work out where you need to be.
C250
Last edited by Comanche250; 19th Jun 2008 at 21:56.
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Use the callsign 'XXX traffic' followed by your FULL callsign ( in case someone else pops up with the same last 2 letters - there's no-one centrally keeping an eye on this if the radio is unstaffed). You shouldn't make the same calls that you would if there was a TOWER, as that involves saying 'clear land' and 'clear takeoff' as a response.
Don't make any information you might give sound in the least official. I would respectfully suggest that you think twice about dishing out info to other aircraft whilst you're flying yourself unless you're very confident about what you're doing. Remember, 'Aviate, navigate, communicate', in that order.
TheOddOne
Don't make any information you might give sound in the least official. I would respectfully suggest that you think twice about dishing out info to other aircraft whilst you're flying yourself unless you're very confident about what you're doing. Remember, 'Aviate, navigate, communicate', in that order.
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In the US, at an uncontrolled airfield, you would also add the name of the airport at the end of the transmission. The reasoning was that uncontrolled airfields would sometimes share frequencies and somebody might be missing the first part of your call but at least know what field it was intended for.
"Winter Haven traffic, N250FT is left downwind 23, Winter Haven"
"Winter Haven traffic, N250FT is left downwind 23, Winter Haven"
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Conversely, this is the procedure in the UK for aerodromes without a notified frequency:
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/cu...4_Y_103_en.pdf
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/cu...4_Y_103_en.pdf
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I'm not sure if Talkdownman is advocating using the procedures in the AIC he links to but just to avoid any confusion they are not applicable at Netherthorpe. SAFETYCOM is for aerodromes without a notified frequency - Netherthorpe is notified as having an air-ground radio station.
Putting a pedantic hat on - you should never find yourself in the position of not getting an answer on the radio. (And I don't know of any published procedures for what calls to make in that case...although I'd be interested in any reference if someone can correct me.) The AIP says that the radio service is provided during normal aerodrome opening hours and by arrangement so you should always get an answer - if you don't you should start thinking about the possibility of a radio failure.
Pedantic hat off - you need some practical answers. The first I would offer is that the AIP shows that there is a signals square, take a look at it when you do your overhead join. Then follow the local practise for what to do when there is no-one answering the radio...but beware that if you encounter a similar situation at another aerodrome the local practise may not be the same. As mentioned by TheOddOne, always address your calls to Netherthorpe Traffic - this will have two effects, first it might be more effective at getting the attention of other pilots using the aerodrome and second, it makes it clear that you think there is no-one answering the radio.
Lastly, keep a darn good lookout!!!
Putting a pedantic hat on - you should never find yourself in the position of not getting an answer on the radio. (And I don't know of any published procedures for what calls to make in that case...although I'd be interested in any reference if someone can correct me.) The AIP says that the radio service is provided during normal aerodrome opening hours and by arrangement so you should always get an answer - if you don't you should start thinking about the possibility of a radio failure.
Pedantic hat off - you need some practical answers. The first I would offer is that the AIP shows that there is a signals square, take a look at it when you do your overhead join. Then follow the local practise for what to do when there is no-one answering the radio...but beware that if you encounter a similar situation at another aerodrome the local practise may not be the same. As mentioned by TheOddOne, always address your calls to Netherthorpe Traffic - this will have two effects, first it might be more effective at getting the attention of other pilots using the aerodrome and second, it makes it clear that you think there is no-one answering the radio.
Lastly, keep a darn good lookout!!!
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Spitoon is correct.
If you call Netherthorpe A/G and get no reply after a couple of attempts, I suggest you make all your usual calls and prefix each call "Netherthorpe Traffic". This will keep other traffic informed of your intentions and should be self-explanatory.
Putting it another way, act as if it were a non-radio airfield, but use the Netherthorpe allocated frequency instead of SAFETYCOM.
If you are unsure about the active runway, the best way to find out is either by inspecting the signal square and/or the windsock from a standard overhead join, or by co-ordinating with other established circuit traffic.
JD
If you call Netherthorpe A/G and get no reply after a couple of attempts, I suggest you make all your usual calls and prefix each call "Netherthorpe Traffic". This will keep other traffic informed of your intentions and should be self-explanatory.
Putting it another way, act as if it were a non-radio airfield, but use the Netherthorpe allocated frequency instead of SAFETYCOM.
If you are unsure about the active runway, the best way to find out is either by inspecting the signal square and/or the windsock from a standard overhead join, or by co-ordinating with other established circuit traffic.
JD
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Well, as I fly from Netherthorpe...
Bigfoot, as your instructor says just make your usual calls to 'Netherthorpe Radio' on the A/G frequency. If nobody answers then just continue to transmit blind. I see no point in changing to 'Netherthorpe Traffic' at all. It will confuse you, other pilots and Lesley or Mark when they get back from the toilet.
Don't rely on there being an active runway. The signal square is useful but not as useful as the windsock. As our longest runway is only 450m(ish) you can reasonably expect traffic to be using either of the main runways if the wind is next to bugger all. I often take off down hill on 06 and arrive on the more usual 24 in those circumstances.
When you begin to leave the circuit just use overhead joins as per normal Netherthorpe practice, and tell everyone where you are, what you are doing, and which runway you are doing it on, even if nobody responds.
If you're still a student I wouldn't worry about passing information to more experienced pilots, just tell everyone what you are doing using the normal calls (using the student prefix if you like) and they should fit in around you.
Your aeroplane will fly no differently if nobody talks to you on the radio, but as a student your instructor will be around so it's very unlikely that you as a solo student will ever be in that position. The rest of us couldn't care less and are usually happy to pass 'G-ABCD is using runway 24, QFE in this aircraft 1011' or sommat similar.
As a stude in the circuit, you only need to make two calls in the air - downwind and final.
There's nothing complicated about it, and it's all a part of the joy of our lovely little informal airfield.
Bigfoot, as your instructor says just make your usual calls to 'Netherthorpe Radio' on the A/G frequency. If nobody answers then just continue to transmit blind. I see no point in changing to 'Netherthorpe Traffic' at all. It will confuse you, other pilots and Lesley or Mark when they get back from the toilet.
Don't rely on there being an active runway. The signal square is useful but not as useful as the windsock. As our longest runway is only 450m(ish) you can reasonably expect traffic to be using either of the main runways if the wind is next to bugger all. I often take off down hill on 06 and arrive on the more usual 24 in those circumstances.
When you begin to leave the circuit just use overhead joins as per normal Netherthorpe practice, and tell everyone where you are, what you are doing, and which runway you are doing it on, even if nobody responds.
If you're still a student I wouldn't worry about passing information to more experienced pilots, just tell everyone what you are doing using the normal calls (using the student prefix if you like) and they should fit in around you.
Your aeroplane will fly no differently if nobody talks to you on the radio, but as a student your instructor will be around so it's very unlikely that you as a solo student will ever be in that position. The rest of us couldn't care less and are usually happy to pass 'G-ABCD is using runway 24, QFE in this aircraft 1011' or sommat similar.
As a stude in the circuit, you only need to make two calls in the air - downwind and final.
There's nothing complicated about it, and it's all a part of the joy of our lovely little informal airfield.
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As a stude in the circuit, you only need to make two calls in the air - downwind and final.
Last edited by BackPacker; 22nd Jun 2008 at 18:32.
