UK's most popular aircraft
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If an R22 is a Citron AX then what is a 172? It was designed in the early 1950’s, went into production in 58 so I suppose it is a Ford Anglea.
Rod1
Rod1
I wonder how long the new plastic aircraft, like the MCR, will last
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“I wonder how long the new plastic aircraft, like the MCR, will last”
The product liability laws and over regulation killed development and the light aviation world stood still from the late 50’s to the 90’s. In the 90’s kit aircraft pushed ahead at a very fast pace. Now we are seeing production aircraft catching up. My MCR will almost lift its own weight and manages about 40 nm to the imperial gal. In 20 years I hope this will be considered appalling and we will all be flying much better aircraft powered by much more efficient systems. I just hope the handling stays sharp and the fun factor remains high.
Rod1
The product liability laws and over regulation killed development and the light aviation world stood still from the late 50’s to the 90’s. In the 90’s kit aircraft pushed ahead at a very fast pace. Now we are seeing production aircraft catching up. My MCR will almost lift its own weight and manages about 40 nm to the imperial gal. In 20 years I hope this will be considered appalling and we will all be flying much better aircraft powered by much more efficient systems. I just hope the handling stays sharp and the fun factor remains high.
Rod1
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The product liability laws and over regulation killed development and the light aviation world stood still from the late 50’s to the 90’s. In the 90’s kit aircraft pushed ahead at a very fast pace. Now we are seeing production aircraft catching up. My MCR will almost lift its own weight and manages about 40 nm to the imperial gal. In 20 years I hope this will be considered appalling and we will all be flying much better aircraft powered by much more efficient systems. I just hope the handling stays sharp and the fun factor remains high.
The reason for the massive decline (an approx 80% drop!) in GA sales from the 1960s to the 1980s, from which mainstream GA has barely recovered today, was nothing to do with regulation or product liability. This may suprise some people but it was caused by people (Americans, basically) not buying planes
Then, blaming product liability / insurance costs for closing down production suited the manufacturers perfectly. The reality was that few people were buying their stuff anymore because the market was flooded with tens of thousands of perfectly serviceable used planes
One could argue, I suppose, that tight regulation (certification) means that planes have to be continuously repaired to a high standard and this means used planes keep their value (as compared to cars which get scrapped as soon as they need a lot of welding to get through the next MOT) which in turn means the market remains flooded with used planes that are usable, whereas in the absence of this regulation the planes would not be maintained so a high standard, would fall apart, would get scrapped early, and this would stimulate the market for new planes. An interesting line of argument, and probably not wrong... this is what we are seeing in the ultralight/permit/sports (whatever you want to call the European VFR-only types) which will get scrapped just like cars on economic grounds.
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The AX is flimsy and every panel rattles when idling - much an R22.
A 172 is better built but uninspiring - mk2 Vauxhall Cavalier, for example, a 1.3 litre base model in sludge brown from about 1980.
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rod1
My figure for “Cubs” is only right up to the end of the fifteys
First you tell me I am wrong. Then you list figures from the 1950's without taking account that Cessna are still in business....How odd!
Thanks Skyhawk-N:
Someone is bound to argue, even though you have provided the evidence.
First you tell me I am wrong. Then you list figures from the 1950's without taking account that Cessna are still in business....How odd!
Thanks Skyhawk-N:
Someone is bound to argue, even though you have provided the evidence.
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James
“My figure for “Cubs” is only right up to the end of the fifteys
First you tell me I am wrong. Then you list figures from the 1950's without taking account that Cessna are still in business....How odd!”
I am fully aware that the 172 is still in production. When I said my figures for the Cub were only up to the 1950’s you will note that I did not mention the Cessna. I am perfectly happy that the greater number is valid, my source was Belvoir, which must be wrong. I mentioned that the Cub figures were only up to the 1950’s because I think there have been some produced since, but I would not guess very many.
Have a good new year.
Rod1
“My figure for “Cubs” is only right up to the end of the fifteys
First you tell me I am wrong. Then you list figures from the 1950's without taking account that Cessna are still in business....How odd!”
I am fully aware that the 172 is still in production. When I said my figures for the Cub were only up to the 1950’s you will note that I did not mention the Cessna. I am perfectly happy that the greater number is valid, my source was Belvoir, which must be wrong. I mentioned that the Cub figures were only up to the 1950’s because I think there have been some produced since, but I would not guess very many.
Have a good new year.
Rod1
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Total production of Cub's is over 40,000 counting all models and manafacturers
http://www.pipercubforum.com/cubprod.htm
http://www.pipercubforum.com/cubprod.htm
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One day, maybe, I'll discover why so many people flock to fly such dreadfully tedious aeroplanes as C172s and PA28s 'for fun'
You need an ICAO certified aircraft for anything beyond simple private group sharing, and to fly abroad without hassle.
Together with the widespread lack of capital in GA, this leaves little but the standard spamcan types which have been filtering over here from the USA for decades.
Almost nobody in Europe would buy a new PA28 or C172 today, and in fact almost nobody does. Have you seen current new PA28 sales figures? Piper live almost entirely on their spares business, and the occassional Meridian turboprop.
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“I seemed to remember its greatest sucess was attracting rust.”
And the 172 have a significant problem with corrosion, so the comparison is a good one. It is also true that if the Anglia were for sale today, nobody would buy it.
Rod1
And the 172 have a significant problem with corrosion, so the comparison is a good one. It is also true that if the Anglia were for sale today, nobody would buy it.
Rod1
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R44
I regret that the R44 has more in common with the 172/ cars featured than might have at first been apparent.
All corrode really well.
My 2 year old R44 has had expensive corrosion work on the boom, tanks and empennage. AOG for 5 weeks also. It started festering a year ago despite living in an airconditioned hangar.
Robinson won't accept liability and blame our weather.........
R66 - Come on guys. This is all an elaborate hoax. The 'R66' is a decoy, right down to the OOS Registration. The real one is being tested in Area 51.
I would ordinarily have posted on 'Rotorheads' but the mods there don't like me and kicked me off. They stonewall me for an explanation but are happy to slag me off to others......
I have important additional information on R44 corrosion but they obviously dont want to hear it, despite PPrune being an otherwise ideal forum to compare experiences.
My mistake I reckon was to neglect to prefix my posts with ' all professional helicopter pilots should be paid £150k a year to start, have all their training costs reimbursed and enjoy a non-contributory final salary pension.'
The mods dont like self-made hobby pilots like me. Maybe a bit of festive cheer will restore a bit of democracy. I won't hold my breath for a 'welcome back, 6 months in the barrel is long enough you naughty boy' Email though.....
Have a good one. Fingers crossed for the New Years Day weather. I'll be up and about if so.
Hairyplane.
All corrode really well.
My 2 year old R44 has had expensive corrosion work on the boom, tanks and empennage. AOG for 5 weeks also. It started festering a year ago despite living in an airconditioned hangar.
Robinson won't accept liability and blame our weather.........
R66 - Come on guys. This is all an elaborate hoax. The 'R66' is a decoy, right down to the OOS Registration. The real one is being tested in Area 51.
I would ordinarily have posted on 'Rotorheads' but the mods there don't like me and kicked me off. They stonewall me for an explanation but are happy to slag me off to others......
I have important additional information on R44 corrosion but they obviously dont want to hear it, despite PPrune being an otherwise ideal forum to compare experiences.
My mistake I reckon was to neglect to prefix my posts with ' all professional helicopter pilots should be paid £150k a year to start, have all their training costs reimbursed and enjoy a non-contributory final salary pension.'
The mods dont like self-made hobby pilots like me. Maybe a bit of festive cheer will restore a bit of democracy. I won't hold my breath for a 'welcome back, 6 months in the barrel is long enough you naughty boy' Email though.....
Have a good one. Fingers crossed for the New Years Day weather. I'll be up and about if so.
Hairyplane.
Last edited by Hairyplane; 2nd Jan 2008 at 09:41.
