FAA IR instead of IMC?
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FAA IR instead of IMC?
Ok, I have a JAR PPL with night privilages and am about to start my IMC in earnest - In the light of the EASA muddle heading our way, should I shelve this and instead get an FAA licence and do an IR to go with it? Can I still fly my Arrow in the GB and euroland on the G-register, or will I then need to put on the N-register to go with my FCL?
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But in the meantime, while the IMC exists, if you have an FAA IR then the CAA will give you an IMC rating based upon it.....for £70. So if you are in a position to do the FAA IR, I would definitely do that rather than the IMCr then you can fly in CAS.
One other thing, when the IMC finally dies a death, if you have an FAA IR then you will still be legal to fly in IMC outside CAS without the IMCr. There are still a lot of airfields with published approaches outside CAS...
Also...You never know, you may gain some credit towards some other european instrument qualification in the future by virtue of your ICAO IR. They may even give you a direct swap at some point...who knows. This would never happen with the IMCr.....
Of course if you put your aeroplane onto the N register, you'd then get worldwide IFR privileges.
One other thing, when the IMC finally dies a death, if you have an FAA IR then you will still be legal to fly in IMC outside CAS without the IMCr. There are still a lot of airfields with published approaches outside CAS...
Also...You never know, you may gain some credit towards some other european instrument qualification in the future by virtue of your ICAO IR. They may even give you a direct swap at some point...who knows. This would never happen with the IMCr.....
Of course if you put your aeroplane onto the N register, you'd then get worldwide IFR privileges.
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Despite all the uncertainty of the IMCR's future one thing is for sure , It is fifteen hours flying instruction that in the end will make you a better pilot , both visually and instrumentally. It will give you a greater appreciation of instrument flying and make you much safer , it will also be good revision from what you learnt on your PPL . It has to be remembered that in the majority of cases the IMCR is taught as a "Get you home safely" rating and not a licence to fly IFR from one place to the other , it still has its restrictions . What you have to ask yourself is , Are you happy to pay for flying training to increase your knowledge and skill level knowing that you may not be able to exercise the priviledges of your new found bit of blue paper in the form of an IMCR or would you be better placed doing some other form of training that will again increase your skill level but in a different way , AOPA Aeros perhaps ? I recently did an IMCR knowing that its days may be numbered . My long term intention is to do an IR anyway and I wanted to combine further training with an appreciation of what an IR might encompass . If it is your intention to get an IMCR so you can take off on pooh days and fly all over the place IFR then maybe the FAA/IR is more suited to you , as I said above most instructors , and I stand to be corrected will say the IMCR is not a licence to fly IFR , it is more of an insurance policy should things not turn out at your destination as you would wish , I found it money well spent and thoroughly enjoyed the flying I am a beter pilot for it even if i never use it.
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One other thing, when the IMC finally dies a death, if you have an FAA IR then you will still be legal to fly in IMC outside CAS without the IMCr.
dp
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With the exchange rate as it is, it will probably cost you very little more to get yourself an FAA IR in the States than it would to get an IMC rating here.
You will be taught how to do things to a higher standard, EASA can't take your FAA IR away from you and until such time as the IMC rating is phased out (if indeed it is phased out) then the CAA will give you one on the basis of your FAA IR.
You will be taught how to do things to a higher standard, EASA can't take your FAA IR away from you and until such time as the IMC rating is phased out (if indeed it is phased out) then the CAA will give you one on the basis of your FAA IR.
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IFR - a case of mistaken identity
Is it not likely that that will be harmonised with other European countries too? Ie. no IFR flight without an instrument rating valid in that aircraft?
To many people, it conjures up flight with sole reference to instruments; not so in the UK!!
Here it simply means flight 1,000' above any obstruction within 5NM of track, except when landing or taking of in accordance with normal aviation pracitice, with observence of the Quadrantal Rule above 3,000'.
You can fly UK IFR on a beautiful sunny day simply by looking out of the window to ensure you're following your track and observing your altimeter (the only instrument required, as far as I can tell). No requirement for any form of electrical or vacuum instruments or a radio.
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Hence the logging time problem I've been known to agonise over.
My ATPL friends log every flight under IFR in the 'instrument flight' column. I was taught only to log time 'by sole reference to instruments'. Which is tricky.
For example, on Thursday afternoon I flew to and from the Severn bridges for a nice view in the afternoon sun. As we climbed out of our home field we passed through a thin scattered cloud layer. For a few seconds we were IMC - and we flew the entire flight under IFRs. So do I log that bit? After all, without an IMC rating it would have been illegal...
If I logged all my IFR flight time as instrument flight in the logbook I'd have a hell of a lot more - almost all my flying is IFR according to the technical definitions, with a little VFR at each end if I don't do a SID or IAP!
Tim
(edited to add - which is why it is often said that in the UK, IFR is a state of mind...)
My ATPL friends log every flight under IFR in the 'instrument flight' column. I was taught only to log time 'by sole reference to instruments'. Which is tricky.
For example, on Thursday afternoon I flew to and from the Severn bridges for a nice view in the afternoon sun. As we climbed out of our home field we passed through a thin scattered cloud layer. For a few seconds we were IMC - and we flew the entire flight under IFRs. So do I log that bit? After all, without an IMC rating it would have been illegal...
If I logged all my IFR flight time as instrument flight in the logbook I'd have a hell of a lot more - almost all my flying is IFR according to the technical definitions, with a little VFR at each end if I don't do a SID or IAP!
Tim
(edited to add - which is why it is often said that in the UK, IFR is a state of mind...)
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The whole question of logging time is according to which piece of paper you are trying to get...
Is "IFR time" usable against anything at all? I don't know. Maybe something in the ATPL, but which ATPL?
Solo "instrument time" is usable towards the FAA IR, to a limited extent. One has to do 15hrs dual training. In practice nobody will have the slightest chance of passing the FAA IR checkride, never mind the oral, unless they have way exceeded the logbook hours requirements. What usually catches people out (on logbook requirements) is specific stuff like the 250nm x/c with 3 different approaches - some examiners require them done on the same day, some are happy if they are done in the context of a long trip somewhere.
Is "IFR time" usable against anything at all? I don't know. Maybe something in the ATPL, but which ATPL?
Solo "instrument time" is usable towards the FAA IR, to a limited extent. One has to do 15hrs dual training. In practice nobody will have the slightest chance of passing the FAA IR checkride, never mind the oral, unless they have way exceeded the logbook hours requirements. What usually catches people out (on logbook requirements) is specific stuff like the 250nm x/c with 3 different approaches - some examiners require them done on the same day, some are happy if they are done in the context of a long trip somewhere.
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Do you have to have either a JAA or FAA CPL rating in order to do an FAA Instrument Rating? (Or can you do the FAA IR on the back of a JAA PPL)
Ian
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Not trying to get anything! I have an IMCR and might decide or be forced into an IR at some stage (see other thread!) but I am assuming the hours won't count for that unless they've formed part of a course of training, even if the requirements for the ground exams are made more sensible.
It's just a case of having an accurate record of my flight time.
Tim
It's just a case of having an accurate record of my flight time.
Tim
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Not trying to get anything! I have an IMCR and might decide or be forced into an IR at some stage (see other thread!) but I am assuming the hours won't count for that unless they've formed part of a course of training, even if the requirements for the ground exams are made more sensible.
The current JAA IR gives no credit for any previous instrument training.
The FAA IR gives you full credit for previous instrument training, done anywhere.
IFR is sufficient and just shows future employers you have experience in this environment so should know what's what.
Well, OK, but that is outside the private GA context. I am not aware of any license or a rating which a private pilot can collect, where logged "IFR time" would be useful.
Typically, in European IFR/airways flight, one spends 99% of the time in clear VMC - at least that is the continuous objective. I certainly would not log that as "instrument flight".
The current JAA IR gives no credit for any previous instrument training.
The FAA IR gives you full credit for previous instrument training, done anywhere.
IFR is sufficient and just shows future employers you have experience in this environment so should know what's what.
Well, OK, but that is outside the private GA context. I am not aware of any license or a rating which a private pilot can collect, where logged "IFR time" would be useful.
Typically, in European IFR/airways flight, one spends 99% of the time in clear VMC - at least that is the continuous objective. I certainly would not log that as "instrument flight".
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Not trying to get anything! I have an IMCR and might decide or be forced into an IR at some stage (see other thread!) but I am assuming the hours won't count for that unless they've formed part of a course of training, even if the requirements for the ground exams are made more sensible.
If you have enough hours, you can do the FAA IR within a week - one of my mates who now flies Airbuses did it in about 6 days from IMC rating - over a weekend, so it is possible.
Play your cards right and you can do it somewhere that teaches you JAR procedures and tolerances and so when you convert you can be sure to do it in minimums....
Just an idea
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Originally Posted by IO540
The current JAA IR gives no credit for any previous instrument training.
An important subtlety you inadvertently missed in your post.
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Yes, you are right.
However, this is more complex.
The 15 hrs training requirement for the conversion is a UK only thing. It is not in JAA. I know for a fact that e.g. Switzerland does not apply it - you "just" sit the JAA exams and turn up for the IR checkride.
So there is no such thing as a "credit" on an ICAO IR -> JAA IR conversion. The whole ICAO IR is carried forward. Only the UK wants you to sit with an instructor for 15hrs.
The fact that most people will need > 15hrs of familiarisation flying, with an instructor who knows the tricks the examiner will try on you, is a separate issue.
Englishal - I'd like to meet your friend who did an FAA IR over a weekend. He must have had some very recent flying, logged or not. It can't be done otherwise; the workload on the checkride is too high to just jump in from any sort of "normal flying".
However, this is more complex.
The 15 hrs training requirement for the conversion is a UK only thing. It is not in JAA. I know for a fact that e.g. Switzerland does not apply it - you "just" sit the JAA exams and turn up for the IR checkride.
So there is no such thing as a "credit" on an ICAO IR -> JAA IR conversion. The whole ICAO IR is carried forward. Only the UK wants you to sit with an instructor for 15hrs.
The fact that most people will need > 15hrs of familiarisation flying, with an instructor who knows the tricks the examiner will try on you, is a separate issue.
Englishal - I'd like to meet your friend who did an FAA IR over a weekend. He must have had some very recent flying, logged or not. It can't be done otherwise; the workload on the checkride is too high to just jump in from any sort of "normal flying".