One for the twin drivers ...
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My thoughts from the commercial jet camp:
Declare a Mayday first. You need to get noticed asap by ATC and you need to do this before you've had time to analyse the reason for the failure. For example if contaminated fuel was the reason, you can expect the shortly loose the other one. Until you have assessed the situation, you need to err on the side of caution and assume you are in need of immediate assistance.
Once the engine is secured and the problem analysed, you may decide that you are no longer in need of immediate assistance, at which time you can downgrade to a Pan.
I can't understand why people (including commercial pilots) are reluctant to declare a Mayday. You need to stack the odds in your favour at all times, the facility for a Mayday is there so use it.
And if nothing else if you declare a Mayday on 121.5 it may stop all those d1ckheads screaming "you're on guard" at you any time anyone opens there mouth on 121.5.
Declare a Mayday first. You need to get noticed asap by ATC and you need to do this before you've had time to analyse the reason for the failure. For example if contaminated fuel was the reason, you can expect the shortly loose the other one. Until you have assessed the situation, you need to err on the side of caution and assume you are in need of immediate assistance.
Once the engine is secured and the problem analysed, you may decide that you are no longer in need of immediate assistance, at which time you can downgrade to a Pan.
I can't understand why people (including commercial pilots) are reluctant to declare a Mayday. You need to stack the odds in your favour at all times, the facility for a Mayday is there so use it.
And if nothing else if you declare a Mayday on 121.5 it may stop all those d1ckheads screaming "you're on guard" at you any time anyone opens there mouth on 121.5.
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This is actually quite a good little thread; aside from the bickering.
The best thing to come from it though is that each individual should have a fair idea of what is a "Mayday" for him. If a loss of a donk or even just a loss of power from one leaves you feeling in peril then by all means call a Mayday.
The best time to discuss what you consider is a mayday is on the ground talking to your mates rather that "What was that?".
In the end calling mayday won't change the fact that you've lost your donk.
If SIHT does happen then ...
What you should be doing is sorting out the drills, getting the airey in a safe configuration, deciding your course of actions and then telling someone what you want to do.
The benefits of telling ATC "hey I've got a problem here" rather than "Mayday" is that you cannot escalate a Mayday.
Lets say you are recovering to an en-route airfield with 1 shut down and you have calmly told ATC what you want to do. And then something ATC wants you to do is different than what you want to do. (Hypothetically, and more likely when English is not the first language of the controller) Even after you have now explained to them again what you wish to do they dither a bit. Now call Mayday and do it anyway.
Example; I was flying back from Brindisi, Italy at FL190 when I lost pressurization. My cabin was climbing. I advised ATC that I have a pressurization problem and might need descent. Couldn't fix it. Cabin now through 13000', I requested descent. ATC - Standby - silence.
Requested again. ATC - coordinating standby.
Mayday, Now descending to FL100.
Its a tool to get what you want, but remember you're on your own still.
Plan for your emergencies so that if and when they happen you are pretty sure you know what you are going to do.
The best thing to come from it though is that each individual should have a fair idea of what is a "Mayday" for him. If a loss of a donk or even just a loss of power from one leaves you feeling in peril then by all means call a Mayday.
The best time to discuss what you consider is a mayday is on the ground talking to your mates rather that "What was that?".
In the end calling mayday won't change the fact that you've lost your donk.
If SIHT does happen then ...
What you should be doing is sorting out the drills, getting the airey in a safe configuration, deciding your course of actions and then telling someone what you want to do.
The benefits of telling ATC "hey I've got a problem here" rather than "Mayday" is that you cannot escalate a Mayday.
Lets say you are recovering to an en-route airfield with 1 shut down and you have calmly told ATC what you want to do. And then something ATC wants you to do is different than what you want to do. (Hypothetically, and more likely when English is not the first language of the controller) Even after you have now explained to them again what you wish to do they dither a bit. Now call Mayday and do it anyway.
Example; I was flying back from Brindisi, Italy at FL190 when I lost pressurization. My cabin was climbing. I advised ATC that I have a pressurization problem and might need descent. Couldn't fix it. Cabin now through 13000', I requested descent. ATC - Standby - silence.
Requested again. ATC - coordinating standby.
Mayday, Now descending to FL100.
Its a tool to get what you want, but remember you're on your own still.
Plan for your emergencies so that if and when they happen you are pretty sure you know what you are going to do.
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JamboJet
I dont entirely following your logic about escalating.
If you first declare a mayday you "can do as you will" so no escalation is required or indeed possible.
If you first declare a pan, granted you can escalate to get what you want, but doesnt that put you in the same situation as if you had first called the mayday?
In short if you are in urgent need of have ATs full attention, why not just call a mayday in the first place, and downgrade if you are certain you have matters under control and no longer require their absolute attention and freedom to do as you wish.
In the event you can "downgrade" a mayday to a pan.
Sorry, all a little confused but I hope I have explained that adequately.
I dont entirely following your logic about escalating.
If you first declare a mayday you "can do as you will" so no escalation is required or indeed possible.
If you first declare a pan, granted you can escalate to get what you want, but doesnt that put you in the same situation as if you had first called the mayday?
In short if you are in urgent need of have ATs full attention, why not just call a mayday in the first place, and downgrade if you are certain you have matters under control and no longer require their absolute attention and freedom to do as you wish.
In the event you can "downgrade" a mayday to a pan.
Sorry, all a little confused but I hope I have explained that adequately.
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Fuji
It's all about how you feel the situation is going.
If you are in a single and you have lost the donk, and you are going down then "Mayday away, making sure they know your position and that you are forced landing"
but
With a twin there are lots of different situations that require ATC assistance and the loss of an engine is one. But if the otherone is working fine then just negociate. In the states pilots usually "Declare an emergency" or "Require a bit of priority" or "Urgency" and leave the "Mayday" until the fan has been really covered in sh*t. (ie lost one and the other feels poorly too)
Calling mayday is fine but I'm just advocating that perhaps you can get the same service without calling mayday, and leaving it for when you really have lost that paddle.
It's all about how you feel the situation is going.
If you are in a single and you have lost the donk, and you are going down then "Mayday away, making sure they know your position and that you are forced landing"
but
With a twin there are lots of different situations that require ATC assistance and the loss of an engine is one. But if the otherone is working fine then just negociate. In the states pilots usually "Declare an emergency" or "Require a bit of priority" or "Urgency" and leave the "Mayday" until the fan has been really covered in sh*t. (ie lost one and the other feels poorly too)
Calling mayday is fine but I'm just advocating that perhaps you can get the same service without calling mayday, and leaving it for when you really have lost that paddle.
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My thoughts from the commercial jet camp:
Hang on, you don't work for a UK operator, do you?!
Anyhow, calling 'Mayday' for any little thing will get you onto the front page of the tabloids as fast as it gets you into the fleet management offices. If I were you, I'd reserve the big 'M' word for the big problems. Perhaps your colleagues in the LHS have a view on this?
