PPL ferry flight legalities
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Well, obviously, one isn't going to get caught unless somebody goes to the CAA with evidence of the payment.
And they can't prosecute unless the person gives them a signed statement saying the payment was for doing the flight.
This is why, so the story goes, when an alleged case of public transport is detected, they quickly take the passengers away and interview them separately, with a view to getting that magic statement that the pilot was paid for the flight.
And they can't prosecute unless the person gives them a signed statement saying the payment was for doing the flight.
This is why, so the story goes, when an alleged case of public transport is detected, they quickly take the passengers away and interview them separately, with a view to getting that magic statement that the pilot was paid for the flight.
Bookworm, Not wanting to get into a spat with you on this ...
To have it construed by a COURT requires someone to prosecute,
The CAA does not make law. If you have something in writing from the CAA regarding this issue, that would be very useful material if the legality were ever tested in court. If you have merely had a telephone conversation with someone at the CAA on this issue, good luck in getting them into the witness stand in your support!
I'm not making a value judgment or suggesting that you should not do this (in your case presumably "have done this" as you now have a CPL, don't you?). But when someone asks about legality, I think it's reasonable to point out the possible interpretations of the law as it stands, particularly in grey areas like this.
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The word from the insurance company is that as long as the pilot is qualified and approved by the owner there is no issue. Some of the aircraft I have ferried I have had to be specifically added to the policy for, others I have flown under the any authorized pilot banner.
The CAA does not make law they enforce it, sometimes very rigorously. However if the CAA enforcement branch state under which parameters a flight of this nature is acceptable then I would be surprised if you adopted the guidelines they would then try and enforce.
But let me be clear here, I am talking specifically about a flight where the pilot receives nothing other than covering his direct out of pockets costs like landing fees and hotel rooms. Not some elaborate scam for getting paid like tips or whatever.
I really do think we are finding reasons here to not do something that is perfectly legal. Perhaps we should ask for an AIC to be issued with guidance like the charity flights.......
The CAA does not make law they enforce it, sometimes very rigorously. However if the CAA enforcement branch state under which parameters a flight of this nature is acceptable then I would be surprised if you adopted the guidelines they would then try and enforce.
But let me be clear here, I am talking specifically about a flight where the pilot receives nothing other than covering his direct out of pockets costs like landing fees and hotel rooms. Not some elaborate scam for getting paid like tips or whatever.
I really do think we are finding reasons here to not do something that is perfectly legal. Perhaps we should ask for an AIC to be issued with guidance like the charity flights.......
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Bookworm is totally right in that the insurance is far more important than the CAA, in practice.
If there is an accident, and passengers get injured, then no matter how good friends of yours they were beforehand, you can rest assured that once their discover that by dropping you in the s**t they can collect a lot more money from you (or from your estate) than they would have got otherwise, they will follow the advice. It's human nature, sadly.
Of course, after the successful conclusion of a flight, it's a different matter
Personally, flying an N-reg on which even PPL cost sharing is illegal in UK airspace (Article 140), I make sure nobody gives me anything, beyond a cut of tea perhaps...
If there is an accident, and passengers get injured, then no matter how good friends of yours they were beforehand, you can rest assured that once their discover that by dropping you in the s**t they can collect a lot more money from you (or from your estate) than they would have got otherwise, they will follow the advice. It's human nature, sadly.
Of course, after the successful conclusion of a flight, it's a different matter
Personally, flying an N-reg on which even PPL cost sharing is illegal in UK airspace (Article 140), I make sure nobody gives me anything, beyond a cut of tea perhaps...
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Money, Money!
The point, is only whether the pilot receives actual valuable consideration for acting as a pilot. The cost of a hotel and choice of restuarant is of course immaterial when reasonable and a matter of lifestyle I agree.
However should you following a ferry flight to Scotland be booked into Skibo Castle with a partner at £1,500 per night this might be difficult to justify as normal expenses, whoever you are.
Our rugby club member obviously thought that he could admit to expenses as outlined and be immune as no claim no payment for acting as a pilot was received, he said, but he wasn't believed. Being believed is a large part of it.
However should you following a ferry flight to Scotland be booked into Skibo Castle with a partner at £1,500 per night this might be difficult to justify as normal expenses, whoever you are.
Our rugby club member obviously thought that he could admit to expenses as outlined and be immune as no claim no payment for acting as a pilot was received, he said, but he wasn't believed. Being believed is a large part of it.
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However should you following a ferry flight to Scotland be booked into Skibo Castle with a partner at £1,500 per night this might be difficult to justify as normal expenses, whoever you are
I wonder whether the CAA judges "reasonable" expenses in the same way as HMRC would. That would at least make sense.
And HMRC has no say in how much money is spent on travelling - short of silly stuff like visiting a customer using a baloon. Staying in the most expensive hotel is certainly OK.
It would be interesting to know how much (and what) that rugby player got.
I wonder whether the CAA judges "reasonable" expenses in the same way as HMRC would. That would at least make sense.
And HMRC has no say in how much money is spent on travelling - short of silly stuff like visiting a customer using a baloon. Staying in the most expensive hotel is certainly OK.
It would be interesting to know how much (and what) that rugby player got.
