Rule Of Thumb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: york
Age: 50
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rule Of Thumb
What i would like to know are all those easy to remember tricks we all use to make the work load easier. For a start how about a DME ARC? Turn ten twist ten! Turn ten degrees and twist ten on the VOR, intercept and repeat. Any more people?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: york
Age: 50
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whopity,
You wouldnt be asked to do a DME arc without a VOR as it is a VOR/DME Procedure
Smacks a bit of RTFQ no? Never mind, they say you will learn something every day in aviation, and it seems you just have!
You wouldnt be asked to do a DME arc without a VOR as it is a VOR/DME Procedure
Smacks a bit of RTFQ no? Never mind, they say you will learn something every day in aviation, and it seems you just have!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmmm, have you taken a look at the Gloucester procedures...........
For a start:
http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/p...s/32BJ0802.PDF
Perhaps you should learn something every day before you open up on others.....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: york
Age: 50
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BoseX,
I cant get in without a password and i dont want a stream of spam mail, so what is it they have their? I am guessing a DME without the VOR? Or some sort of system using the ILS? Have they got ILS? I have never flown in there in bad weather so not fammiliar with their procedures. All advice will be gratefully recieved, that was the point of the post.
I cant get in without a password and i dont want a stream of spam mail, so what is it they have their? I am guessing a DME without the VOR? Or some sort of system using the ILS? Have they got ILS? I have never flown in there in bad weather so not fammiliar with their procedures. All advice will be gratefully recieved, that was the point of the post.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you guys realise that you are playing with fire? I mean, if anybody discovered the wind drift rule of thumb, it would undermine all the hours spent teaching the useless circular slide rule in the PPL syllabus
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BoseX,
I cant get in without a password and i dont want a stream of spam mail, so what is it they have their? I am guessing a DME without the VOR? Or some sort of system using the ILS? Have they got ILS? I have never flown in there in bad weather so not fammiliar with their procedures. All advice will be gratefully recieved, that was the point of the post.
I cant get in without a password and i dont want a stream of spam mail, so what is it they have their? I am guessing a DME without the VOR? Or some sort of system using the ILS? Have they got ILS? I have never flown in there in bad weather so not fammiliar with their procedures. All advice will be gratefully recieved, that was the point of the post.
Oh and for the record that link I sent you is to the AIS site which you should have access to as you are checking NOTAMS and AIP data aren't you?
So I hope you have learnt something in aviation today?
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it is pretty unlikely that registering with AIS would get you much spam, but anyway...
You can get approach plates for Gloucester from here, without registering:
http://fly.dsc.net/u/Charts?ident=EGBJ
You can get approach plates for Gloucester from here, without registering:
http://fly.dsc.net/u/Charts?ident=EGBJ
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: york
Age: 50
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK i accept that there are other DME procedures, but i have only flown an arc on a co-located VOR/DME, and turn ten twist ten will only work with a VOR, otherwise you wont have anything to twist
Unless your listening to Atlantic 252 on the ADF
Unless your listening to Atlantic 252 on the ADF
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So back to my point, just because you have not done something does not mean it can't be done. A bit like your apology to Whoppity.....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: york
Age: 50
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BoseX,
i think i will have to try that on MS2004 as i haven't done that one. But running through the figures it looks like were on the same game. Take a 5 mile dme arc, thats a ten mile diameter circle(well i would hope to fly something like a circle ) were trying to fly around a VOR. So That circle will be 31.24 miles in diameter and as a circle has 360 degrees were looking at 36 turnings of the azimuth. Whereas your system would be to fly presumably with the ADF needle off your right wing on a heading of 010 untill the dme changes then trun 10 degrees to the right. Which would mean appx 32 ten degree right turns. I see how that works, i was just never taught it. And i do appologise to Whopity as it seems you can fly a dme arc without a VOR. And who was it saying recently that ADF's were aincient and should be scrapped? Also thanks for the link Drauc, very usefull bit of info that and the plate for Staverton is indeed an NDB co-located DME approach. Maybe thats why i haven't been there in bad weather
i think i will have to try that on MS2004 as i haven't done that one. But running through the figures it looks like were on the same game. Take a 5 mile dme arc, thats a ten mile diameter circle(well i would hope to fly something like a circle
) were trying to fly around a VOR. So That circle will be 31.24 miles in diameter and as a circle has 360 degrees were looking at 36 turnings of the azimuth. Whereas your system would be to fly presumably with the ADF needle off your right wing on a heading of 010 untill the dme changes then trun 10 degrees to the right. Which would mean appx 32 ten degree right turns. I see how that works, i was just never taught it. And i do appologise to Whopity as it seems you can fly a dme arc without a VOR. And who was it saying recently that ADF's were aincient and should be scrapped? Also thanks for the link Drauc, very usefull bit of info that and the plate for Staverton is indeed an NDB co-located DME approach. Maybe thats why i haven't been there in bad weather
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: very west
Age: 65
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by pumper_bob
OK i accept that there are other DME procedures, but i have only flown an arc on a co-located VOR/DME, and turn ten twist ten will only work with a VOR, otherwise you wont have anything to twistUnless your listening to Atlantic 252 on the ADF
Has anyone been able to get Atlantic 252 in the last five years????
OK i accept that there are other DME procedures, but i have only flown an arc on a co-located VOR/DME, and turn ten twist ten will only work with a VOR, otherwise you wont have anything to twist
Unless your listening to Atlantic 252 on the ADF Has anyone been able to get Atlantic 252 in the last five years????
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: york
Age: 50
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just googled dme arc and got some good stuff, try this one:-
2006-01-22
Flying the DME Arc
Filed under: system — david @ 22:02:32-0500
Hamish has a posting that mentions how much easier DME arcs are with an RMI display.
Sometimes I feel lucky that I was never taught the official way to a DME arc during my instrument training. We have one nearby, but it just never came up. I flew my first DME arc alone in the plane in actual IMC, and because I was never taught to be stressed about it, it seemed like a simple maneuver. Here’s all I do in the arc itself (assuming that the DME and VOR are already tuned and identified):
3 Comments »
BoseX, have you ever actually flown one on an ADF?Sorry for the italics, i must have imported them from the post and they wont go away!
2006-01-22
Flying the DME Arc
Filed under: system — david @ 22:02:32-0500
Hamish has a posting that mentions how much easier DME arcs are with an RMI display.
Sometimes I feel lucky that I was never taught the official way to a DME arc during my instrument training. We have one nearby, but it just never came up. I flew my first DME arc alone in the plane in actual IMC, and because I was never taught to be stressed about it, it seemed like a simple maneuver. Here’s all I do in the arc itself (assuming that the DME and VOR are already tuned and identified):
- turn perpendicular to the DME source (so that it is off one of my wingtips)
- fly my heading until the DME hits about .2 to .3 miles more than the DME arc distance;
- turn 5 or 10 degrees towards the DME source, and repeat (to allow for winds, turn more if the DME doesn’t start decreasing; less if it decreases too much; don’t let it get less that .2 to .3 miles less than the DME arc distance).
3 Comments »
- [*]
BoseX, have you ever actually flown one on an ADF?Sorry for the italics, i must have imported them from the post and they wont go away!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: york
Age: 50
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So if we are done with the DME ARC, does anyone have any other little gems they are willing to share? And i would also like the wind drift rule please IO540, you cant tempt us and then leave
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think he is referring to the clock code trick using your watch.
To start with max drift is half of your total wind taken from the spot wind chart or any other source you can find. Then work out how much the wind is off your desired track. 10 degrees is 10 minutes on your watch which is 1/6 x-wind. 30 degrees is 1/2 x-wind and on until you hit 60-90 degrees where you take full x-wind in which case you apply your max drift to the track to work out your heading after taking into account variation. My CRP-5 is gradually gathering dust as we speak.
To start with max drift is half of your total wind taken from the spot wind chart or any other source you can find. Then work out how much the wind is off your desired track. 10 degrees is 10 minutes on your watch which is 1/6 x-wind. 30 degrees is 1/2 x-wind and on until you hit 60-90 degrees where you take full x-wind in which case you apply your max drift to the track to work out your heading after taking into account variation. My CRP-5 is gradually gathering dust as we speak.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Just to refine pot's statement - Max Drift should be wind speed in knots divided by your TAS in nm/min. ie Max Drift = wind/2 if flying at 120kt TAS, wind/3 if flying at 180kt TAS etc etc.
Using it down towards the lower end of the speed spectrum is prone to allowing errors to creep in due to the larger drift angles it creates.
Using it down towards the lower end of the speed spectrum is prone to allowing errors to creep in due to the larger drift angles it creates.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At anywhere near 100kt,
max drift = half the wind (i.e. 20kt wind -> 10 degree offset)
At anywhere near 150kt
max drift = 1/3 of the wind
The above work for a wide range of angles; much wider that most people think. The truth is that nobody (not having an air data computer plus a GPS) really knows what the wind aloft is, accurately enough to make a difference. If you can sort out your heading within 5 degrees, that's just fine. If you have time, you can improve on it as you go along. If you haven't got time (like on an instrument approach) you have other more important things to do anyway.
max drift = half the wind (i.e. 20kt wind -> 10 degree offset)
At anywhere near 150kt
max drift = 1/3 of the wind
The above work for a wide range of angles; much wider that most people think. The truth is that nobody (not having an air data computer plus a GPS) really knows what the wind aloft is, accurately enough to make a difference. If you can sort out your heading within 5 degrees, that's just fine. If you have time, you can improve on it as you go along. If you haven't got time (like on an instrument approach) you have other more important things to do anyway.