50 hour checks.
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50 hour checks.
Dear All
Has anyone got any advice regarding costs of 50 hour checks. I know that it is very hard to say, given age of aircraft, parts etc, but what is the averge for say a old robin/c152/172 reasonably old... Any advice would help............
Has anyone got any advice regarding costs of 50 hour checks. I know that it is very hard to say, given age of aircraft, parts etc, but what is the averge for say a old robin/c152/172 reasonably old... Any advice would help............
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Not too bad
Depends on where you go.
My local guys would probably get you for less than £200 if there was nothing wrong.
Trouble is with an aging aircraft their often is and frankly I pay them to spot it before I do.
Good luck.
RTC
My local guys would probably get you for less than £200 if there was nothing wrong.
Trouble is with an aging aircraft their often is and frankly I pay them to spot it before I do.
Good luck.
RTC
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You should be looking at 6-8 Hours labour plus parts/oil.
This will not cover AD's that require extra work.
If you are being charged any less the job can't be being done in full.
This will not cover AD's that require extra work.
If you are being charged any less the job can't be being done in full.
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If you are the owner and you are a qualified pilot and the aircraft is certified in the private category, I believe you can do you own 50Hr. check. However, you must stick strictly to the items in the maintenance schedule. Anything more you need to find a licenced engineer. Some engineers will do the odd 50hr check for you, (given the above critera), away from a maintenance base for a bit of pocket money, if you don't feel comfortable enough to do it yourself. Remember it is your life!!
If you decide to have a go, you are not allowed to disturb any locking devices and strictly not allowed to disturb any flying controls or engine controls except to establish full/free movement and to look for problems such a ware or excessive free-play or fouling.
If you find you are permitted to do your own check, then I would advise you pay an engineer to show you the first one.
Your first check should in fact be to understand the aircraft log book and the maintenance schedule that it has to comply with. I believe that the requirements for certification are in that.
If you decide to have a go, you are not allowed to disturb any locking devices and strictly not allowed to disturb any flying controls or engine controls except to establish full/free movement and to look for problems such a ware or excessive free-play or fouling.
If you find you are permitted to do your own check, then I would advise you pay an engineer to show you the first one.
Your first check should in fact be to understand the aircraft log book and the maintenance schedule that it has to comply with. I believe that the requirements for certification are in that.
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£350 is a lot of money, considering the oil for an IO-360 costs about £40-£50 (Exxon Elite, the best), an oil filter costs £10, and the rest is a few hours' labour.
The "labour" is done mostly with the eye and a power screwdriver, and in a JAR145 company there is no need to have a torque limit on it so it's OK to chew off as many screw heads as you like. I have lost count of how many chewed up screws I have had to replace..... The really big joke is that when I was under a Transport CofA I was not allowed to replace them
The "labour" is done mostly with the eye and a power screwdriver, and in a JAR145 company there is no need to have a torque limit on it so it's OK to chew off as many screw heads as you like. I have lost count of how many chewed up screws I have had to replace..... The really big joke is that when I was under a Transport CofA I was not allowed to replace them
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It would be interesting to compare how much we pay for car mechanics per hour compared to aircraft engineers.
I suspect that we don't get bad value from the aircraft side of things, although I have found both to be pretty useless much of the time.
last time i had my car done it was well over £50 per hour!
I suspect that if aircraft maintenance organistions were as busy as your average garage they wouldn't take 6-8 hours to do an oil/filter change and tyre kick which is basically all a 50hr check is. since for most places the volume of work is not there there is no pressure to really crack on.
I suspect that we don't get bad value from the aircraft side of things, although I have found both to be pretty useless much of the time.
last time i had my car done it was well over £50 per hour!
I suspect that if aircraft maintenance organistions were as busy as your average garage they wouldn't take 6-8 hours to do an oil/filter change and tyre kick which is basically all a 50hr check is. since for most places the volume of work is not there there is no pressure to really crack on.
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This "volume of work" is very interesting.
Time and time again, I contact some avionics shop about some work, and they always say they are inundated and can't do it for the next 3 weeks.
When I finally get there, I see 1 person walking around, another slowly wiring up some connector in an equipment rack, and not a lot else going on.
Something doesn't add up here. Somehow these firms regularly go out of business, despite constantly quoting long lead times for new work as if they were inundated with work. And avionics work is hardly competitive - the trade margins on the supply are very generous indeed for example.
The actual hourly rates in GA maintenance are not at all high; in fact they are usually lower than garages.
Time and time again, I contact some avionics shop about some work, and they always say they are inundated and can't do it for the next 3 weeks.
When I finally get there, I see 1 person walking around, another slowly wiring up some connector in an equipment rack, and not a lot else going on.
Something doesn't add up here. Somehow these firms regularly go out of business, despite constantly quoting long lead times for new work as if they were inundated with work. And avionics work is hardly competitive - the trade margins on the supply are very generous indeed for example.
The actual hourly rates in GA maintenance are not at all high; in fact they are usually lower than garages.
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Originally Posted by IO540
This "volume of work" is very interesting.
Time and time again, I contact some avionics shop about some work, and they always say they are inundated and can't do it for the next 3 weeks.
When I finally get there, I see 1 person walking around, another slowly wiring up some connector in an equipment rack, and not a lot else going on.
Something doesn't add up here. Somehow these firms regularly go out of business, despite constantly quoting long lead times for new work as if they were inundated with work. And avionics work is hardly competitive - the trade margins on the supply are very generous indeed for example.
The actual hourly rates in GA maintenance are not at all high; in fact they are usually lower than garages.
Time and time again, I contact some avionics shop about some work, and they always say they are inundated and can't do it for the next 3 weeks.
When I finally get there, I see 1 person walking around, another slowly wiring up some connector in an equipment rack, and not a lot else going on.
Something doesn't add up here. Somehow these firms regularly go out of business, despite constantly quoting long lead times for new work as if they were inundated with work. And avionics work is hardly competitive - the trade margins on the supply are very generous indeed for example.
The actual hourly rates in GA maintenance are not at all high; in fact they are usually lower than garages.
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Without wanting to defend the engineers corner too much, it's a waste of time as one can see by these recurring threads anyway...
Look through the 50hr Check in the LAMS schedule and there is actually more to it than change the oil/filter and 'kick the tyres'.
Remember there is paperwork to be raised before the job, during the job and after the job. The majority of our customers use tech logs or journey logs which rarely tally by the time we transfer the figures into the aircraft log books. Most owners present their aircraft in a pretty filthy state and they can't be inspected through the dirt so they have to be cleaned.
Cowlings have to be removed and the whole engine installation inspected for possible defects as well as the oil/filter/plugs/air filter change/inspect as well as the whole airframe. The oil filter is cut open and inspected (how many car garages do that?). Spats have to be removed and refitted for the job to be done properly.
If you had a £20-40k value car you would be paying up to 2 or 3 times the £38/hr labour we charge. We work on 8 hours labour for something like a PA28-161 for a 50 hour check. If people really think that the job can be done quicker than good luck, I'd love to come and watch you do it!
As for things being found defective, the majority of the GA fleet being some 25+ years old and flown the equivalent of half a million miles - what would cars be like at that age/mileage.
I don't dispute that there are some rogue traders out there as there are in all walks of life but please don't tar us all with the same brush!
If you are doing your own maintenance then good luck, I'm sure you are doing it in a sensible, clean environment and with all the right tools and manuals to hand (as legally required by the CAA LAMS).
Look through the 50hr Check in the LAMS schedule and there is actually more to it than change the oil/filter and 'kick the tyres'.
Remember there is paperwork to be raised before the job, during the job and after the job. The majority of our customers use tech logs or journey logs which rarely tally by the time we transfer the figures into the aircraft log books. Most owners present their aircraft in a pretty filthy state and they can't be inspected through the dirt so they have to be cleaned.
Cowlings have to be removed and the whole engine installation inspected for possible defects as well as the oil/filter/plugs/air filter change/inspect as well as the whole airframe. The oil filter is cut open and inspected (how many car garages do that?). Spats have to be removed and refitted for the job to be done properly.
If you had a £20-40k value car you would be paying up to 2 or 3 times the £38/hr labour we charge. We work on 8 hours labour for something like a PA28-161 for a 50 hour check. If people really think that the job can be done quicker than good luck, I'd love to come and watch you do it!
As for things being found defective, the majority of the GA fleet being some 25+ years old and flown the equivalent of half a million miles - what would cars be like at that age/mileage.
I don't dispute that there are some rogue traders out there as there are in all walks of life but please don't tar us all with the same brush!
If you are doing your own maintenance then good luck, I'm sure you are doing it in a sensible, clean environment and with all the right tools and manuals to hand (as legally required by the CAA LAMS).
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I think my engineer is reasonable! I pay £280 for a 50hr check all in for my 172. My car would cost £800.
I would not do the 50hr check myself as I am not very spanner oriantated and it pays to have another eye check things over.
I would not do the 50hr check myself as I am not very spanner oriantated and it pays to have another eye check things over.
