Wanted: Someone to fly two cats to France!
The Original Whirly
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Wanted: Someone to fly two cats to France!
My cousin and his wife are moving to the south of France (Nice/Cannes area) sometime in the next six months. But they have one problem. They don't want to subject their two adored cats to a two-day car journey, or to travelling in the hold of an airliner. So they asked me if I could fly the cats over there. Well, I'd love to, but it's not practical; everything I fly is too slow, and I'm a VFR-only pilot and winter is approaching. So I said I'd see if I could find anyone.
They want to get to the south of France from Yorkshire (Sherbern-in-Elmet is the nearest airfield) in one day, so you'd need a fast aircraft. Thinking of the time of year, an IR might be a good idea too. You'd need to take the cats, and probably one of them too. They're happy to pay whatever is required or is legal...I explained about cost sharing restrictions etc for PPLs, but said someone with a CPL might want/expect more. They would be fairly flexible as to exact day or time.
If you have any more questions feel free to post them here. If you can offer to fly the cats down there, please send me a pm, and I'll give you my cousin's email address or phone number and leave you to sort it out between you.
Thanks in advance, all you globe-trotting, airways-flying Mooney owners!
They want to get to the south of France from Yorkshire (Sherbern-in-Elmet is the nearest airfield) in one day, so you'd need a fast aircraft. Thinking of the time of year, an IR might be a good idea too. You'd need to take the cats, and probably one of them too. They're happy to pay whatever is required or is legal...I explained about cost sharing restrictions etc for PPLs, but said someone with a CPL might want/expect more. They would be fairly flexible as to exact day or time.
If you have any more questions feel free to post them here. If you can offer to fly the cats down there, please send me a pm, and I'll give you my cousin's email address or phone number and leave you to sort it out between you.
Thanks in advance, all you globe-trotting, airways-flying Mooney owners!
Better red than ...
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Does the number of cats affect the split of fuel sharing costs in the same way as people on board?
What would be the accounting impact of carrying a tank full of ants on the sharing calculationb?
Discuss.
What would be the accounting impact of carrying a tank full of ants on the sharing calculationb?
Discuss.
Actually, I would have thought that the trauma of an unpressurised, SEP aeroplane would be much more stressful to the moggies than a straightforward car trip.
Suggest your cousin and wife buy a couple of cat travel boxes and get the cats used to them over the next 6 months. Take them for the odd car trip now and again, perhaps, to acclimatise them to the idea of travel.
But if they're Siamese, for God's sake don't let the little $ods out of their boxes whilst the car is in motion! Otherwise they'll do a quick tour of the interior before hiding under the brake and clutch pedals yowling plaintively!
Mine did that many years ago!
Suggest your cousin and wife buy a couple of cat travel boxes and get the cats used to them over the next 6 months. Take them for the odd car trip now and again, perhaps, to acclimatise them to the idea of travel.
But if they're Siamese, for God's sake don't let the little $ods out of their boxes whilst the car is in motion! Otherwise they'll do a quick tour of the interior before hiding under the brake and clutch pedals yowling plaintively!
Mine did that many years ago!
The Original Whirly
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Apparently the cats have been on the odd car trip - and they hate it! And it's two days by car from Yorkshire to the south of France.
I hadn't thought about how the cats would cope with a small aircraft; anyone ever tried it? My cousin seemed to think if they could get there in a day, they'd be OK. I don't really know.
They're not Siamese; they're Bengals!!!! Probably even worse!!!!!
I hadn't thought about how the cats would cope with a small aircraft; anyone ever tried it? My cousin seemed to think if they could get there in a day, they'd be OK. I don't really know.
They're not Siamese; they're Bengals!!!! Probably even worse!!!!!
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I think that it would be far kinder to the moggies to send them by airliner or car. Light aircraft are pretty noisy, if the cats don't like cars, they're going to hate a small aircraft.
Better red than ...
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Bet the cats are sorry you asked now. Has the Mooney man volunteered yet? It was parked on the ramp yesterday with the cover on.
h-r
h-r
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Whirls
Have you considered using one of the homeapathic remedies (sp) to calm them down?
I've used them on a dog before, not as strong as a vets anaesthetic, much kinder to the animal (& driver).
It's a lot easier to stop a car in transit to calm 2 hysterical cats down than a plane BTW
CH
Have you considered using one of the homeapathic remedies (sp) to calm them down?
I've used them on a dog before, not as strong as a vets anaesthetic, much kinder to the animal (& driver).
It's a lot easier to stop a car in transit to calm 2 hysterical cats down than a plane BTW
CH
The Original Whirly
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Thanks for suggestions, folks (Kissmysquirrel, I just went right off you. 
)
CDH, if it were me, I'd get tranquillisers for the cats from the vet (homeopathic or conventional) and THEN take them by aircraft. Getting them there in a day makes sense, but so does calming them down. However, it's not me, and I'm trying to help out, but not make all the decisions - that's for my cousin to do. But I gave him the link to this thread, so please keep the suggestions coming...
(Though any more like KMS's, and you may find two irate cat lovers and two fierce Bengal cats on your doorstep, and not happy!!!!)
)CDH, if it were me, I'd get tranquillisers for the cats from the vet (homeopathic or conventional) and THEN take them by aircraft. Getting them there in a day makes sense, but so does calming them down. However, it's not me, and I'm trying to help out, but not make all the decisions - that's for my cousin to do. But I gave him the link to this thread, so please keep the suggestions coming...
(Though any more like KMS's, and you may find two irate cat lovers and two fierce Bengal cats on your doorstep, and not happy!!!!)
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Whirly - I might be able to do it. Would not be cheap, as I'd really want to do it in a twin for that range and likely weather, but I have about the cheapest access to a twin I know of, and I need the hours so might be willing to do some cost sharing. Does sound like a £2000 job though. Depends on my circumstances at the time, but it seems feasible. My CPL and IR are, of course, current.
Kissmysquirrel - my Dad's answer when his sister was moving to Australia and spending £5000 to transport the Alsation was "I didn't realise they were so expensive in Aus", but that was a dog, so such lack of sympathy was justified.
Kissmysquirrel - my Dad's answer when his sister was moving to Australia and spending £5000 to transport the Alsation was "I didn't realise they were so expensive in Aus", but that was a dog, so such lack of sympathy was justified.
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I looked into something similar a little while ago. If they're travelling under the Pets Travel Scheme they have to travel on an approved route. That covers most commercial ferry companies and airlines as well as a few charter companies such as NetJets and London Executive. Certainly, for bringing pets into the UK, private aircraft and boats are expressly forbidden. I've no idea if the same rules apply for travel into France, but as this is a EU scheme I'd imagine so.
From the point of view of the pilot this doesn't sound a particularly attractive proposition, unless they're prepared to break the rules and trust your friends not to shop them if tiddles keels over or gets hurt in turbulence. Also, as I understand it, even a CPL can't legally accept more than 1/2 the cost of the outbound flight as they won't be operating under an AOC.
If your friends are really serious about saving the cats unnecessary distress, I suggest they look on the defra website where they have a list of charter companies approved for pet transport.
Good luck,
David
From the point of view of the pilot this doesn't sound a particularly attractive proposition, unless they're prepared to break the rules and trust your friends not to shop them if tiddles keels over or gets hurt in turbulence. Also, as I understand it, even a CPL can't legally accept more than 1/2 the cost of the outbound flight as they won't be operating under an AOC.
If your friends are really serious about saving the cats unnecessary distress, I suggest they look on the defra website where they have a list of charter companies approved for pet transport.
Good luck,
David
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I fly with people who fly into France all the time taking the dog. It sits on the back seat of there Arrow as happy as larry. It requires the doggy passport and a vet inspection on exit and entry, after that you are free to go where you want. They have never had a problem and researched the legality of it very carefully before running any risk with there most prized possession.
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Bose-X - could you ask them how they do that, please? As I mentioned, I looked into this and came up against a dead-end as there are very specific routes and approvals set down for the Pet Travel Scheme. Defra sets out the details on http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/quar...nfo/routes.htm On that page it states quite explicitly "You may not bring a pet into the UK under the Pet Travel Scheme from a private boat or plane."
I'd still like to be able to do this, so any light you can shed would be very useful.
Thanks,
David
I'd still like to be able to do this, so any light you can shed would be very useful.
Thanks,
David
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As i understand it the restrictions are to prevent adhoc travel bringing in an animal. It has to be prearranged in both directions.
I will ask for some exact info from them and post. But they have been doing it for quite some time backed by appropriate paperwork.
Done the same in and out of the Channel Islands as well.
I will ask for some exact info from them and post. But they have been doing it for quite some time backed by appropriate paperwork.
Done the same in and out of the Channel Islands as well.
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Wrong Stuff
Flying into the UK with animals is always very different, due to the rabies regulations.
As a CPL holder I believe I am entitled to fly a flight without contributing, and even get paid, if I am engaged directly and it is a private flight. No AOC is required to carry employees or owners of the organisation operating the flight, and if I am engaged directly then I am being employed by the people to fly the aircraft that they have hired, and they are te organisation owners. It is how corporate aviation works, when it is not subcontracted out to an AOC holder.
If it is not part of their duties, and the work could be done some other way at the choice of the individual then a PPL holder may fly for a company! Again it can only be on internal business, not carrying passengers for hire.
Anyway it is not half - it is equal shares, so in the Partanavia it might only be 1/6th - 1/8th if 2 kitties pay their way!
Flying into the UK with animals is always very different, due to the rabies regulations.
As a CPL holder I believe I am entitled to fly a flight without contributing, and even get paid, if I am engaged directly and it is a private flight. No AOC is required to carry employees or owners of the organisation operating the flight, and if I am engaged directly then I am being employed by the people to fly the aircraft that they have hired, and they are te organisation owners. It is how corporate aviation works, when it is not subcontracted out to an AOC holder.
If it is not part of their duties, and the work could be done some other way at the choice of the individual then a PPL holder may fly for a company! Again it can only be on internal business, not carrying passengers for hire.
Anyway it is not half - it is equal shares, so in the Partanavia it might only be 1/6th - 1/8th if 2 kitties pay their way!
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Send Clowns,
I think that you would need an AOC for this as it is transport of Cargo (live animals) and you are planning on receiving renumeration.
If some kind soul, pays the aircraft owner for 4 hours flight time and then lets you fly the aircraft for four hours at no charge then that is one thing but giving you Money equivalent to the cost of say 4 hours flying in return for transport of their cargo from A to B is something different.
The old PPL paid to sweep the floor but actually flying the Citation went out years ago!
If you and 5 friends share the Partenavia you can still only split the costs 4 ways i.e. you must pay atleast 25% of the costs. Of course the other 5 could agree to split the costs again and pay 15% each but that is up to them.
Regards,
DFC
I think that you would need an AOC for this as it is transport of Cargo (live animals) and you are planning on receiving renumeration.
If some kind soul, pays the aircraft owner for 4 hours flight time and then lets you fly the aircraft for four hours at no charge then that is one thing but giving you Money equivalent to the cost of say 4 hours flying in return for transport of their cargo from A to B is something different.
The old PPL paid to sweep the floor but actually flying the Citation went out years ago!
If you and 5 friends share the Partenavia you can still only split the costs 4 ways i.e. you must pay atleast 25% of the costs. Of course the other 5 could agree to split the costs again and pay 15% each but that is up to them.
Regards,
DFC
My understanding was that the Pet Travel Scheme only applied to UK bound journeys. Certainly when we took our cats to Spain in 2002 neither DEFRA nor anybody elese were interested in the route we took.
After all the usual jabs/microchip, etc. they will need a certificate of good health signed by an approved vet. From the time of signing we had 72 hours to clear France. We visited the vet at 9 a.m., he examined them, signed them off and then gave them a sedative to see them through the hovercraft crossing Dover/Calais. We were travelling at reasonable speed as I was towing a trailer and our journey to southern Spain took 4 days. For the month before we left we put a harness on the cats every night and took them out in the car for a ride to get them used to the idea. They were no trouble at all on the journey and have settled well in their new home.
After all the usual jabs/microchip, etc. they will need a certificate of good health signed by an approved vet. From the time of signing we had 72 hours to clear France. We visited the vet at 9 a.m., he examined them, signed them off and then gave them a sedative to see them through the hovercraft crossing Dover/Calais. We were travelling at reasonable speed as I was towing a trailer and our journey to southern Spain took 4 days. For the month before we left we put a harness on the cats every night and took them out in the car for a ride to get them used to the idea. They were no trouble at all on the journey and have settled well in their new home.
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Whirly - have your friends considered going by train? Probably not much slower and I'd have thought the least stressful option for the cats - unless they'd have to travel 'cargo' tho?