Cancelling due to wx
Supercharged PPRuNer
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Join Date: Nov 2000
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Cancelling due to wx
A hypothetical question:
You have booked to rent an aircraft from your local club for a cross country to an airfield around 80 miles away. On the day, the TAF for the destination (and most of the region) forecasts wind at 15G27, 50 degrees across their only runway, so you are outside the aircraft’s crosswind limits.
At your local field the wind is straight down the runway, so you could do some circuits or go on a local flight, but your passenger isn’t comfortable in turbulence. In short, you could fly, but it’s clearly not the best of days and you certainly can’t do your planned trip.
Aside from the weather, you are relatively low-hours and only fly a couple of times per month, so deciding to err on the side of caution, you phone your local club to cancel and rebook.
How would you expect them to react?
You have booked to rent an aircraft from your local club for a cross country to an airfield around 80 miles away. On the day, the TAF for the destination (and most of the region) forecasts wind at 15G27, 50 degrees across their only runway, so you are outside the aircraft’s crosswind limits.
At your local field the wind is straight down the runway, so you could do some circuits or go on a local flight, but your passenger isn’t comfortable in turbulence. In short, you could fly, but it’s clearly not the best of days and you certainly can’t do your planned trip.
Aside from the weather, you are relatively low-hours and only fly a couple of times per month, so deciding to err on the side of caution, you phone your local club to cancel and rebook.
How would you expect them to react?
Join Date: Oct 1999
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As always - depends on the club.
I was lucky. I learnt at a place where the Captains decision was final. If the weather wasn't suitable for what you wanted to do you cancelled. It was accepted and nobody ever complained provided you did the right thing and cancelled rather than just keeping the booking and leaving the aircraft on the ground.
Having learned in that environment I refuse point blank to get involved in any organisation, group etc which tries to take that option away from you, either by charging a cancellation fee or kicking up a stink if you decide to cancel.
So - I'm guessing you got involved and had a 'conversation' with an organisation in the latter category. If the attitude was one which you weren't happy about then vote with your feet - there are plenty of other places I suspect that would welcome your business.
That's the big problem with the aviation world in the UK - they seem to think they're doing you a favour by accepting your business. You're a customer, they're a service provider in which many others are providing the same service. The sooner some of them realise this the better things will be.
I was lucky. I learnt at a place where the Captains decision was final. If the weather wasn't suitable for what you wanted to do you cancelled. It was accepted and nobody ever complained provided you did the right thing and cancelled rather than just keeping the booking and leaving the aircraft on the ground.
Having learned in that environment I refuse point blank to get involved in any organisation, group etc which tries to take that option away from you, either by charging a cancellation fee or kicking up a stink if you decide to cancel.
So - I'm guessing you got involved and had a 'conversation' with an organisation in the latter category. If the attitude was one which you weren't happy about then vote with your feet - there are plenty of other places I suspect that would welcome your business.
That's the big problem with the aviation world in the UK - they seem to think they're doing you a favour by accepting your business. You're a customer, they're a service provider in which many others are providing the same service. The sooner some of them realise this the better things will be.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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As said - it would depend on the club. But don't make a habit of it - you are depriving them of the income either of you, or another club member who is confident enough to use the weather.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Can only speak for the club that I work at. All PPL`s are signed out in the tech log by the duty Instructor. He would check that you have obtained TAF`s etc for the flight. In these circumstances you wouldn`t be allowed to go due to the cross wind limits. If you wanted to do some circuits...that would be okay. If you cancel completely due to WX then there is no problem with that either.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Agree 100% with Chilli. I've had the odd disagreement with one place I flew, but the one thing they always got right was that they agreed it was my call whether I liked the look of the weather or not. I'm more confident now, but when I was a new PPL that was a great comfort.
But yes, ring and cancel. That way if they can use the plane for someone else they will.
Tim
But yes, ring and cancel. That way if they can use the plane for someone else they will.
Tim
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The captain is responsible for the safety of the flight, so if the captain is not happy and decides to cancel that's that.
I would not do business with any club or hirer who would not simply support that decision and move on.
If the hire is cancelled then there's an aeroplane available for someone, but if the FLIGHT is cancelled, but the HIRE is not, then the club would have a reasonable cause for feeling sore.
I would not do business with any club or hirer who would not simply support that decision and move on.
If the hire is cancelled then there's an aeroplane available for someone, but if the FLIGHT is cancelled, but the HIRE is not, then the club would have a reasonable cause for feeling sore.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Agree with all the other replies. If the club in question gets upset about your decision, find a new club.
But, as an instructor at a busy school, if you were to hire from my school and this situation arose I would appreciate you letting me know sooner rather than later. Having a plane booked for a long period often makes the schedule pretty tight, and knowing that the aircraft has become available gives us lots of options. (Even more so, incidentally, if the weather early in the morning was outside limits at your home airfield, but by mid-morning it is now inside your limits at home but not at your destination. I now have three or four punters from the early morning whom I would rather re-schedule for later in the day, but I can't do that until I know whether you're going ahead with your flight.)
FFF
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But, as an instructor at a busy school, if you were to hire from my school and this situation arose I would appreciate you letting me know sooner rather than later. Having a plane booked for a long period often makes the schedule pretty tight, and knowing that the aircraft has become available gives us lots of options. (Even more so, incidentally, if the weather early in the morning was outside limits at your home airfield, but by mid-morning it is now inside your limits at home but not at your destination. I now have three or four punters from the early morning whom I would rather re-schedule for later in the day, but I can't do that until I know whether you're going ahead with your flight.)
FFF
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How would you expect them to react?
Of course if you phone them up and say "er sorry about this but I think I'm going to have to cancel mumble mumble ..." they might just fall about laughing: "well of course, you didn't seriously think we'd let you fly in this did you?".
Personally I would usually junk the passenger and fly a couple of circuits on my own to restart the club currency clock. I appreciate there's more of a decision to be made if you live an hour from the airfield rather than ten minutes.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I see this from something of a different perspective.
If it was last Friday (13th) you are asking questions about, I was delighted that all the other potential hirers canceled on the basis of the forecast you gave. It meant I was able to use a plane from my local flying club - that was otherwise fully booked - for a one hour trip that takes four hours by car!
Every cloud - or in this case severe turbulence - has a sliver lining!
If anything the weather was worse than forecast which did make for an 'interesting' landing on my return.
On a serious note, it might be as well to remember thet the crosswind 'limit' is actually nothing of the sort. It's just the maximum wind that the test program got around to testing the aircraft in. If you read the POH it says maximum demonstrated crosswind. No mention of limits. You club ops book may of course have something else to say.
If it was last Friday (13th) you are asking questions about, I was delighted that all the other potential hirers canceled on the basis of the forecast you gave. It meant I was able to use a plane from my local flying club - that was otherwise fully booked - for a one hour trip that takes four hours by car!
Every cloud - or in this case severe turbulence - has a sliver lining!
If anything the weather was worse than forecast which did make for an 'interesting' landing on my return.
On a serious note, it might be as well to remember thet the crosswind 'limit' is actually nothing of the sort. It's just the maximum wind that the test program got around to testing the aircraft in. If you read the POH it says maximum demonstrated crosswind. No mention of limits. You club ops book may of course have something else to say.
Getting Back is a Bigger Deal
Yes, cancelling the flight out because of forecast weather at destination is a fair call and should be made as soon as possible -- i.e. check the weather the night before and on waking up and keep the owner in the loop.
But you really want to be confident that the weather will allow you to get back home at the time you plan for the return.
Unflyable weather for the return is inconvenient and expensive, especially when far away
Crosswind limits !? I once cancelled a training flight because there would be 20+ kt. on my tail during the taxi.
But you really want to be confident that the weather will allow you to get back home at the time you plan for the return.
Unflyable weather for the return is inconvenient and expensive, especially when far away
Crosswind limits !? I once cancelled a training flight because there would be 20+ kt. on my tail during the taxi.
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The captain is responsible for the safety of the flight, so if the captain is not happy and decides to cancel that's that.
Flies for fun
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I have to agree with HWD. The weather doesn't generally come as a big surprise with modern forecasting. It's infuriating for a pilot to cancel a booking when the weather conditions are exactly as forecast. Even a low hour pilot should be aware of his/her limitations. I have personally had to return the aircraft for somebody elses use on several occasions and found that they had cancelled due to wind even though nothing had changed from the forecast. Proper planning and preparation is an essential part of flying. Just try and be as considerate as possible towards other renters and flying clubs by looking at the forecast and planning ahead. Makes for a much friendlier relationship with the club.
