BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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Different Types on Strike
Just browsing an article on the strike and I was struck by the big differences there appear to be in the types of crew on strike.
BA Unite strikes: Willie Walsh vows to win war of attrition | Mail Online
1. Piccy of the Bath Rd demonstrators. Not sure how many are actually BA CC or just rent a mob. Still the whole episode showed a very militant and aggressive side and switched off a lot of public support.
2. Piccy of the smiling girl with the 'Time for the snip Willie' plackard. Happy, making her point in a humerous and non offensive way. If Bassa were more like her they may have stood a chance.
3. Piccy of the mum and her kid. Im afraid designer jeans, timberland boots, sunglasses perched on the head and the ever so precious tiara will not be going down well with Unite union members, in hard factory jobs, who are now being asked to dig deep and cover her wages.
A strange strike indeed.
BA Unite strikes: Willie Walsh vows to win war of attrition | Mail Online
1. Piccy of the Bath Rd demonstrators. Not sure how many are actually BA CC or just rent a mob. Still the whole episode showed a very militant and aggressive side and switched off a lot of public support.
2. Piccy of the smiling girl with the 'Time for the snip Willie' plackard. Happy, making her point in a humerous and non offensive way. If Bassa were more like her they may have stood a chance.
3. Piccy of the mum and her kid. Im afraid designer jeans, timberland boots, sunglasses perched on the head and the ever so precious tiara will not be going down well with Unite union members, in hard factory jobs, who are now being asked to dig deep and cover her wages.
A strange strike indeed.
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BASSA woes.
Get Smart has just posted the text of 'A Report from your Reps' from the BASSA camp, which reveals a little of what is going on behind the scenes. Most interestingly it makes clear that BA's strictures on Reps working within BA premises is causing them difficulties and worse, the Reps themselves are being rostered to fly.
Derostering is not being permitted, as in the past, and it is this that is causing the most disruption among union members. One wonders if the deafening silence from BASSA will lead a few more people to read and listen to what BA are actually saying? I am not sufficiently familiar with the various organisational structures, but it seemed to me that the missive offered some Rep' emergency mobile numbers for only LHR crews - LGW are on their own?
One paragraph I think, absolutely typified the sort of BASSA statement that has virtually brought about this dispute. The completely baseless, unverifyable yahoo insult to WW that has mesmerised cabin crews and made them listen and believe anything and everything that BASSA tells them and totally ignore anything that BA says.
Have Bill Francis or Willie Walsh been found (and documented) to have lied or even been 'economical with the truth' when making any announcement or report? Do they have the slightest evidence anywhere, at any time? If you say that sort of thing to an adoring and largely unquestioning audience, what they think is exactly what you want them to think. Doing this should be actionable, because it causes strikes.
Roger.
Derostering is not being permitted, as in the past, and it is this that is causing the most disruption among union members. One wonders if the deafening silence from BASSA will lead a few more people to read and listen to what BA are actually saying? I am not sufficiently familiar with the various organisational structures, but it seemed to me that the missive offered some Rep' emergency mobile numbers for only LHR crews - LGW are on their own?
One paragraph I think, absolutely typified the sort of BASSA statement that has virtually brought about this dispute. The completely baseless, unverifyable yahoo insult to WW that has mesmerised cabin crews and made them listen and believe anything and everything that BASSA tells them and totally ignore anything that BA says.
Many crew have been asking us if there is any truth in the rumour that the strike breakers will be first on to any New Fleet. Obviously with no meetings this is currently just a rumour. "Honest" Bill is on record as
saying no one will be forced onto New Fleet. With his track record since
arriving as head of IFCE, expect postings in weeks!
saying no one will be forced onto New Fleet. With his track record since
arriving as head of IFCE, expect postings in weeks!
Roger.
Last edited by Landroger; 3rd Apr 2010 at 10:25. Reason: Correction of name.
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Have Bill Francis or Willie Walsh been found (and documented) to have lied or even been 'economical with the truth' when making any announcement or report? Do they have the slightest evidence anywhere, at any time? If you say that sort of thing to an adoring and largely unquestioning audience, what they think is exactly what you want them to think. Doing this should be actionable, because it causes strikes.
Roger.
I gave up thinking that either side was being entirely truthful a long time ago. Unfortunately that's one of the downsides of conducting the dispute in the press.....
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Call100
I'm sure someone is gagging to write the book.
I gave up thinking that either side was being entirely truthful a long time ago. Unfortunately that's one of the downsides of conducting the dispute in the press.....
I gave up thinking that either side was being entirely truthful a long time ago. Unfortunately that's one of the downsides of conducting the dispute in the press.....
As for the book, I might retire and do exactly that! It is a fascinating story although, I have to say, it hasn't really been conducted in the press. Of course it has grabbed headlines -'12 days of christmas' and 'cabin crew walk out' and many others recently - but that has only really been since christmas. All the origins and escalation of the dispute have carried on by internal communications and meetings. And the way forums have worked has, I suspect, had a far greater influence on how the whole issue has developed, than the media.
In all of what has become public on this forum, I'm not sure that there is much balance between the two sides, in the ratio of verifyable fact versus complete bo11ocks spouted to their adherents and the public. I would think even the most partisan reader would have to admit BASSA have been way out in the lead with that particular acheivement - one of their few.
Roger.
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They lost my support when a 12 week strike was called in the first instance...Having been involved in negotiating and consequently the odd dispute for many years, I considered that to be suicide and showed an acute lack of any strategy and a disregard for the welfare of the members.
To be honest I dread the outcome of the dispute...It could have far reaching consequences to the UK workforce, that I fear will result in many disputes that would have otherwise not happened.
To be honest I dread the outcome of the dispute...It could have far reaching consequences to the UK workforce, that I fear will result in many disputes that would have otherwise not happened.
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On the question of who has the upper hand I think that BA win hands down! Insofar that Unite and BASSA drifted apart on Sunday and created a silence that was deafening, and then BASSA's low grade straw grasping tactics with lies and half truths did themselves no favours. The reps could have demonstrated that they would suffer the same as those who will not be able work, by not accepting work themselves. Never! They would not do that. All they have done is given some vague instructions on how to claim some money from the union. Hypocrites!
The loose ends need tying up now but I fear that BASSA have shot their bolt. How is Liz Malone going to commute back and forth to LAX? Not only with a bad foot but no ST. Unite will act after Easter and I would expect that a few docs will be torn up.
The loose ends need tying up now but I fear that BASSA have shot their bolt. How is Liz Malone going to commute back and forth to LAX? Not only with a bad foot but no ST. Unite will act after Easter and I would expect that a few docs will be torn up.
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I would guess that next week, once everyone in the big leather chairs has had a few days off, that there might be a few 'quiet and polite' telephone calls.
This isn't going anywhere, for anyone's benefit. It isn't like "The Pit's shut down" or "The Nation is paralysed", because BA is still operating. OK, a lot of pax are pi66ed off, and some have possibly left BA never to return. But BA is flying, and so are a very large %ge the pax that pay for it.
The strikers are dancing at Bedfont, and screaming from buses, but that achieves absolutely NOTHING. Do those performance artists not notice that BA is doing quite well without them? or even better?
All that remains is the exit strategy, for both BA and Unite. I would suspect that BASSa will be sidelined, by a diktat from high up in the Labour Party to Unite. How far WW is prepared to concede will be the interesting factor - I doubt he will go back on his word on ST, for a start, regardless of how much additional grief that may cause.
So the BASSA mob at Bedfont might well end up baying at the moon for all the good it will do them - they either go back to work or, from what I've read on the CC Threads from their 'colleagues', preferably not.
I'm standing by for something called "Breaking News" on Thursday.
This isn't going anywhere, for anyone's benefit. It isn't like "The Pit's shut down" or "The Nation is paralysed", because BA is still operating. OK, a lot of pax are pi66ed off, and some have possibly left BA never to return. But BA is flying, and so are a very large %ge the pax that pay for it.
The strikers are dancing at Bedfont, and screaming from buses, but that achieves absolutely NOTHING. Do those performance artists not notice that BA is doing quite well without them? or even better?
All that remains is the exit strategy, for both BA and Unite. I would suspect that BASSa will be sidelined, by a diktat from high up in the Labour Party to Unite. How far WW is prepared to concede will be the interesting factor - I doubt he will go back on his word on ST, for a start, regardless of how much additional grief that may cause.
So the BASSA mob at Bedfont might well end up baying at the moon for all the good it will do them - they either go back to work or, from what I've read on the CC Threads from their 'colleagues', preferably not.
I'm standing by for something called "Breaking News" on Thursday.
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How is Liz Malone going to commute back and forth to LAX?
"Frankly, my dear, I couldn't give a damn."
And nor could anybody else in BA (except Toxic Liz herself, perhaps).
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You are right. As I posted on here a while ago the BA CEO has already won this one. The only question now is how much he is preapred to negotiate a return v letting Bassa whither on the vine. The only reason he will not destroy Bassa is if the Govt broker a deal with Unite and he has to cut them ie Unite not bassa, a little slack. I have no place taking sides in this dispute but i have to say WW has put on a great show and come across very well. I travelled on a BA LH flight during a strike day and the atmosphere was great. I feel really sorry for the decent CC who fell for the Bassa line. is the head of this Union really living in LAX? Unbelieveable.
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@ CCC ... Liz-Anne wither on the vine? I would suspect [uncharitably] that she has played that 'recovering from osteoporosis' card to the hilt, whilst extracting BASSA expenses at Ł100 a day for writing scribble on their website. Her days must be numbered - you can only play the same 'sickness card' for so long.
IMO, of course, E&OE, happy to be corrected with facts from her CA medicos.
@ BIB ... we shall have to wait and see. There is no doubt that WW [and his staff, who did much of the hard work] planned this incredibly complex counter-campaign with commendable efficiency. As to the BA CC involved - sadly they sow what they reap. A few hundred militants? versus a huge majority of honest, hard-working CC? I just hope that WW's end-game includes rewards as well as penalties, and I'm sure it will. This has been pre-planned to ensure BA's survival and that means that the loyal CC HAVE to be part of the package..
IMO, of course, E&OE, happy to be corrected with facts from her CA medicos.
@ BIB ... we shall have to wait and see. There is no doubt that WW [and his staff, who did much of the hard work] planned this incredibly complex counter-campaign with commendable efficiency. As to the BA CC involved - sadly they sow what they reap. A few hundred militants? versus a huge majority of honest, hard-working CC? I just hope that WW's end-game includes rewards as well as penalties, and I'm sure it will. This has been pre-planned to ensure BA's survival and that means that the loyal CC HAVE to be part of the package..
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Sorry if this has already been answered, but now that the dust has settled, is there a list of which top BASSA negotiators stood by their team and went on strike for any of the withdrawal days?
In other words, how many of the BASSA team have now had pay docked and permanently lost their Staff Travel?
Surely they couldn't all have avoided standing in line with their members?
In other words, how many of the BASSA team have now had pay docked and permanently lost their Staff Travel?
Surely they couldn't all have avoided standing in line with their members?
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That would surely be good to see!
BA from the days of Miles Thomas, King, Marshall, Ayling and the 'Concorde killer' Eddington have all had a what can only be termed a very poor attempt to sort BA. It didn't work. Each of them let the unions dictate. Bad strategy however you look at it. Never enough cutting of numbers, which was desperately required. It is needed now and WW knows it. He is a clever man, regardless of what Liz, Tony or Len think. They are out of their depth and they know that WW will do what he has to do to "save this airline!" The days of diktats from the unions is over. He will probably allow the bare bones but I suspect he will lay down the rules but only on his terms - with perhaps a few crumbs.
Bassa and Unite dug this pit and as they days go by they will find the sides getting very slippery. As someone said - you reap what you sow.
The unions spin on the city was ill judged and very mis-understood. What they should recognize is that people are happy to invest in BA now and have confidence in the CEO. Helluva an incentive that!
The unions will NEVER break the will of WW - NEVER. Get used to it.
BA from the days of Miles Thomas, King, Marshall, Ayling and the 'Concorde killer' Eddington have all had a what can only be termed a very poor attempt to sort BA. It didn't work. Each of them let the unions dictate. Bad strategy however you look at it. Never enough cutting of numbers, which was desperately required. It is needed now and WW knows it. He is a clever man, regardless of what Liz, Tony or Len think. They are out of their depth and they know that WW will do what he has to do to "save this airline!" The days of diktats from the unions is over. He will probably allow the bare bones but I suspect he will lay down the rules but only on his terms - with perhaps a few crumbs.
Bassa and Unite dug this pit and as they days go by they will find the sides getting very slippery. As someone said - you reap what you sow.
The unions spin on the city was ill judged and very mis-understood. What they should recognize is that people are happy to invest in BA now and have confidence in the CEO. Helluva an incentive that!
The unions will NEVER break the will of WW - NEVER. Get used to it.
Last edited by RTR; 3rd Apr 2010 at 20:49.
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Can any one explain where the extra 10% comes from, ie BA rate plus 10%. Why do the CC at BA deserve this? surely pay base rate, there are thousands out there ready to jump into the BA CC shoes, probably at Market less 10%!, but then I did say BA = Market rate...
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Did ACAS actually come out and say no such meeting existed? I know the Union claimed this but I don't recall ACAS actually confirming it. I remember them taking Walsh to task over the fact he was talking about ACAS meetings outside of ACAS meetings. They also told the Union off for this as well.
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@ WinchControl .... My guess is that the 10% extra reflects the need for BA to provide a premium product [ie First and Club], thus demanding a higher level of customer service/training than would be typically be associated with LoCo CC who are being paid "the average".
Hopefully someone who actually knows something will be along later!
Hopefully someone who actually knows something will be along later!
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Did ACAS actually come out and say no such meeting existed? I know the Union claimed this but I don't recall ACAS actually confirming it. I remember them taking Walsh to task over the fact he was talking about ACAS meetings outside of ACAS meetings. They also told the Union off for this as well.
It may have been a genuine misunderstanding, these things happen, but, we will never know one way or the other.
I hope that both sides will give ACAS another go. I have always found them to be helpful in clearing the waters and enabling a solution that does not leave a nasty taste in the mouth and enables both sides to continue working in the right atmosphere.
I really hope that over the next week things begin to cool and talks get under way, I don't believe the dispute is showing either side in a good light.
The unions will NEVER break the will of WW - NEVER. Get used to it.
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Guardian still struggling with fact-checking..
Last week we had the Guardian letter from 95 academics with the false statement about ‘WW rejecting Unite's acceptance of BA's previous offer’, which was quietly amended a day or so after initial publication.
Now the Guardian has had to - again rather quietly - make a correction and apology to a Prof Frank Burchill, whom they accused of producing a “comprehensive guide to undermining Bassa's current leadership”. The allegation was untrue and has been removed.
guardian.co.uk | Search | Frank Burchill
Now the Guardian has had to - again rather quietly - make a correction and apology to a Prof Frank Burchill, whom they accused of producing a “comprehensive guide to undermining Bassa's current leadership”. The allegation was untrue and has been removed.
guardian.co.uk | Search | Frank Burchill
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Post 1363 on the other thread
The e-mail posted by Birdspeed on the other thread makes for interesting reading.
The individual who wrote it is all over the place As ever in denial that what BA needs is a long term step change in its CC cost structure. A short term alleviation in the form of a temporary pay drop just does not cut it.
The rest of the post I'll leave to others to decide their response. I'm off to a dark room to calm down!
The individual who wrote it is all over the place As ever in denial that what BA needs is a long term step change in its CC cost structure. A short term alleviation in the form of a temporary pay drop just does not cut it.
The rest of the post I'll leave to others to decide their response. I'm off to a dark room to calm down!
Post 1363
Yes, that does take a bit of swallowing, it has an interesting mix of self-pity and glorification. Since high speed trains are not accident free, why the disparity between train staff and airline CC ? Can't children cry and people have health issues on trains ? About the only difference I can think of is the ability to walk to the buffet in a train, so the real discriminator is the serving of refreshments. Not a very obvious basis for glamour or perks. See the RMT is now also shouting 'safety' when what is really at stake is the protection of pay and conditions. Must be catching.