Age vs experience
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7:45
Please define what a defenceless enemy soldier is, in this case? Are you saying that fighter pilots were told to strafe unarmed enemy soldiers? From personal experience I can say that their is no such thing as a defencelss enemy soldier, unless he's tied up or handcuffed, and under guard.
(think WWII... many fighter pilots were asked to strafe defenceless enemy soldiers for example).
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Thinking pilot
There are things in life that some people find easier to do than others. As the old saying goes "If you can do it, it's easy. It is when you can't that things are hard"
I admire the person you once instructed they certainly had determination.
Ash767
There are things in life that some people find easier to do than others. As the old saying goes "If you can do it, it's easy. It is when you can't that things are hard"
I admire the person you once instructed they certainly had determination.
Ash767
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34R good luck with your career. In Europe there are many pilot's who do not start flying until well after there 30th birthday.
Soul, don't take too much offence at some of the responses. As a young guy you obviously have a great career ahead of you. I was going to join the airforce when I left school as my old man did before me. I changed my mind at the last minute and went bush instead. I have been flying for the past 17 or so years (airlines in Oz and Europe for the past 10 years) and generally enjoy it. At 40 years of age and around 11,000 hours of flying, I am just starting to hit my straps.
All the best with your career mate whichever way it takes you.
Soul, don't take too much offence at some of the responses. As a young guy you obviously have a great career ahead of you. I was going to join the airforce when I left school as my old man did before me. I changed my mind at the last minute and went bush instead. I have been flying for the past 17 or so years (airlines in Oz and Europe for the past 10 years) and generally enjoy it. At 40 years of age and around 11,000 hours of flying, I am just starting to hit my straps.
All the best with your career mate whichever way it takes you.
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Huron Topp:
While I have no personal experience in fighting wars, I have read a couple of books on experiences of people involved in WWII. If General Chuck Yeager can be trusted, this is what he says in his autobiography on page 79-80:
Quote
"...the driver of a German staff car. I was coming straight at him; one quick burst and that car disintegratred, four bodies tossed out on the icy road like rag dolls... A soldier running through the snow - zap him... Atrocities were committed by both sides... Our seventy five Mustangs were assigned an area of fifty miles by fifty miles inside Germany and ordered to strafe anything that moved. The object was to demoralise the German population... We weren't asked how we felt zapping people. It was a miserable, dirty mission, but we all took off on time and did it. If it occurred to anyone to refuse to participate (nobody refused, as I recall) that person would have probably been court-martialled... By definition, war is immoral...wartime Germany wasn't easily divided between "innocent civilians" and its military machine. The farmer tilling his potato field might have been feeding German troops."
Unquote
Gen Yeager's biography is a fascinating read about his experiences and I recommend it to anyone. However, I grant that it may have been erroneous for me to take his accounts of what happened as fact, but I wouldn't totally dismiss what he said about atrocities happening. I don't have any experience of war or of killing somebody else but I have been in the military and know the immense responsibility placed upon anyone in the armed forces.
I have the greatest respect for everyone who serves in the military but my point was that anyone considering a career in the military should understand the responsibility they hold when they put on their country's uniform.
HT, if you have had experience in fighting for our country, then I thank you for doing your job. It would be a privilege for me if you could share your experiences with us.
Sorry all if this was a little off topic...
While I have no personal experience in fighting wars, I have read a couple of books on experiences of people involved in WWII. If General Chuck Yeager can be trusted, this is what he says in his autobiography on page 79-80:
Quote
"...the driver of a German staff car. I was coming straight at him; one quick burst and that car disintegratred, four bodies tossed out on the icy road like rag dolls... A soldier running through the snow - zap him... Atrocities were committed by both sides... Our seventy five Mustangs were assigned an area of fifty miles by fifty miles inside Germany and ordered to strafe anything that moved. The object was to demoralise the German population... We weren't asked how we felt zapping people. It was a miserable, dirty mission, but we all took off on time and did it. If it occurred to anyone to refuse to participate (nobody refused, as I recall) that person would have probably been court-martialled... By definition, war is immoral...wartime Germany wasn't easily divided between "innocent civilians" and its military machine. The farmer tilling his potato field might have been feeding German troops."
Unquote
Gen Yeager's biography is a fascinating read about his experiences and I recommend it to anyone. However, I grant that it may have been erroneous for me to take his accounts of what happened as fact, but I wouldn't totally dismiss what he said about atrocities happening. I don't have any experience of war or of killing somebody else but I have been in the military and know the immense responsibility placed upon anyone in the armed forces.
I have the greatest respect for everyone who serves in the military but my point was that anyone considering a career in the military should understand the responsibility they hold when they put on their country's uniform.
HT, if you have had experience in fighting for our country, then I thank you for doing your job. It would be a privilege for me if you could share your experiences with us.
Sorry all if this was a little off topic...
Props are for boats!
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7fortyfive,
I am the same as you exserviceman with n o action. But I do remember the "Rules of Engagement"
2 states of readyness Red and Amber.
If you were on Amber you had to challenge your enemy to identify themselves.
If were on Red all you had to do was identlfy the enemy. If they looked or had weapon or in any way were identlfyable with the enemy, you could "DROP THEM" to the ground.
People wonder why that Camera Man got shot just lately in Iraq. Well a young Marine just fresh from all this training could have easily pulled the trigger and if he was on Red he was in his rights to drop him.
Its a sad tough world
Regards
Sheep
I am the same as you exserviceman with n o action. But I do remember the "Rules of Engagement"
2 states of readyness Red and Amber.
If you were on Amber you had to challenge your enemy to identify themselves.
If were on Red all you had to do was identlfy the enemy. If they looked or had weapon or in any way were identlfyable with the enemy, you could "DROP THEM" to the ground.
People wonder why that Camera Man got shot just lately in Iraq. Well a young Marine just fresh from all this training could have easily pulled the trigger and if he was on Red he was in his rights to drop him.
Its a sad tough world
Regards
Sheep
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Soulman
Good effort with the big reply but... you have to remember that you don't get anywhere in aviation with out respect, especially towards the pilots that are actually pilots. i certainlly wouldn't want to fly with an attitude like that sitting next to me.
anyone can write a smart ass long response on pprune. but your still not sitting in an aeroplane, so i'd lie a bit lower until you are.
basic respect mate, will serve you well
Good effort with the big reply but... you have to remember that you don't get anywhere in aviation with out respect, especially towards the pilots that are actually pilots. i certainlly wouldn't want to fly with an attitude like that sitting next to me.
anyone can write a smart ass long response on pprune. but your still not sitting in an aeroplane, so i'd lie a bit lower until you are.
basic respect mate, will serve you well
requestjoining
I notice you are new to this forum (or are you ?). Respect is a two way street my friend. If the likes of Winstun and Boney can’t show some, (in this case to Soulman) then there is no way they will get it from the other good people on this forum.
I notice you are new to this forum (or are you ?). Respect is a two way street my friend. If the likes of Winstun and Boney can’t show some, (in this case to Soulman) then there is no way they will get it from the other good people on this forum.
Seasonally Adjusted
Getting back to the topic...has anyone else heard of any 'old timers' making the break from GA? If so, how many hours did they have and on what? I'm concerned mainly with those on the wrong side of 35.
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There are many success stories out there, as I'm sure you have come across. Here's one of them from the Daily telegraph
The link is http://www.careerone.com.au/newsview...-22566,00.html
Good luck, and never give up on your dreams!
Profile: Childflight helicopter pilot, Phil Frost
The best career move Phil Frost ever made was shifting interstate at five days' notice to take on a new job with half his normal pay.
Frost's new career was as a Telstra ChildFlight helicopter pilot, a job which rarely becomes available due to the high level of qualifications and experience required and the scarcity of positions.
For Frost, who already had a satisfying and well-paid job as a Queensland police officer with the dog squad, it was the job of a lifetime because it paid him to fly.
"I always wanted to fly," he says. "When I was young I wanted to be either a pilot or a police officer."
"I worked in the bank for nine months after I left school but only until I was old enough to join the police service."
While happily pursuing his 15-year police career in Queensland, Frost also took his first steps towards his dream of flying by volunteering for CareFlight on the Gold Coast.
He started in 1983 by hanging around the helicopter base, doing odd jobs and getting to know the staff.
"I helped out the crew and I loved being around the helicopter," he says.
After several years he was invited to train to be a crew member, and later to work the winch and learn other rescue skills -- all still on a voluntary basis.
"It takes quite a while to progress to being even a winch operator but being a police officer helped," he says. "In the meantime, about 1990, I decided I wanted to fly."
Frost spent about $50,000 of his own money getting his fixed-wing plane licence, then his helicopter licence.
In 1997, his big break came. A former boss at CareFlight in Queensland who had moved on to Telstra ChildFlight in Sydney hired a new helicopter co-pilot. When he didn't work out in the job, he called Frost.
"I got a phone call on a Thursday to say I started on the next Tuesday," Frost says. "I had a police house and the police dogs so I was pretty well set up in Queensland, and to leave all that and come to Sydney on half the pay was a huge struggle. I had to go home and say to my wife: 'Guess what?"'
Captain Frost has moved through the ranks to be a pilot, as well as taking on the role of operations manager.
He has also gained more qualifications, including an airline transport pilot's licence (similar to a jumbo pilot), a night rating, a command instrument rating and a multi-engine helicopter endorsement.
Telstra ChildFlight, which is the world's first inter-hospital retrieval service dedicated to babies and children, is also the only such service in Australia to fly with two pilots for added safety.
Frost flies either of the service's two modified helicopters -- ChildFlight 1 or ChildFlight 11 -- which can stay in the air for up to four hours without refuelling.
The pilot's job involves working a 48-hour shift, then having four days off, then two days on standby.
While working his 48-hour shift, Frost lives on base. There is maintenance, preparation and paperwork to be done in addition to flying but the main emphasis is on being well-rested at all times in case a job comes up -- so the pace is relaxed between missions.
A complicated system ensures that if the flying team works more than a total of 10 hours within the shift, they are replaced by the standby team until they are rested.
Calls for the Telstra ChildFlight helicopter come through the NSW Newborn and Paediatric Emergency Transport Service (NETS). Most are for hospital-to-hospital transfers but Telstra ChildFlight also backs up other emergency services and attends searches and accidents when needed.
Telstra ChildFlight is based at Westmead Hospital but can fly patients to any of the 10 hospitals in Sydney, Newcastle and Canberra which are equipped to treat severely ill children.
"The best part of my job is knowing that I'm helping people, that my job does make a difference to people for the better -- although it doesn't always happen that way," he says.
He says he is fairly resilient to the emotional stress that comes with helping sick -- and sometimes fatally ill -- children but it is impossible not to get involved in some cases.
Frost says very few pilots work their way up through volunteer positions as he did.
Nevertheless, he says people who dream of flying should take heart from the fact that anything is possible. "When I started learning to fly in my early 30s all the ex-military guys said I was too old and wouldn't make it," he says. "Now they're trying to hire me, so I had the last laugh."
High-flying opportunity
Jobs at Telstra ChildFlight and similar emergency services rarely come up and are generally offered to experienced and qualified pilots
Get a start in the industry by joining the armed forces or privately learning to fly a plane or helicopter
Telstra ChildFlight pilots earn about $85,000 although a proportion of this is salary sacrificed into superannuation
Checkout www.childflight.org.au
Story by Jo Roger, The Daily Telegraph, August 30, 2003.
The link is http://www.careerone.com.au/newsview...-22566,00.html
Good luck, and never give up on your dreams!
Profile: Childflight helicopter pilot, Phil Frost
The best career move Phil Frost ever made was shifting interstate at five days' notice to take on a new job with half his normal pay.
Frost's new career was as a Telstra ChildFlight helicopter pilot, a job which rarely becomes available due to the high level of qualifications and experience required and the scarcity of positions.
For Frost, who already had a satisfying and well-paid job as a Queensland police officer with the dog squad, it was the job of a lifetime because it paid him to fly.
"I always wanted to fly," he says. "When I was young I wanted to be either a pilot or a police officer."
"I worked in the bank for nine months after I left school but only until I was old enough to join the police service."
While happily pursuing his 15-year police career in Queensland, Frost also took his first steps towards his dream of flying by volunteering for CareFlight on the Gold Coast.
He started in 1983 by hanging around the helicopter base, doing odd jobs and getting to know the staff.
"I helped out the crew and I loved being around the helicopter," he says.
After several years he was invited to train to be a crew member, and later to work the winch and learn other rescue skills -- all still on a voluntary basis.
"It takes quite a while to progress to being even a winch operator but being a police officer helped," he says. "In the meantime, about 1990, I decided I wanted to fly."
Frost spent about $50,000 of his own money getting his fixed-wing plane licence, then his helicopter licence.
In 1997, his big break came. A former boss at CareFlight in Queensland who had moved on to Telstra ChildFlight in Sydney hired a new helicopter co-pilot. When he didn't work out in the job, he called Frost.
"I got a phone call on a Thursday to say I started on the next Tuesday," Frost says. "I had a police house and the police dogs so I was pretty well set up in Queensland, and to leave all that and come to Sydney on half the pay was a huge struggle. I had to go home and say to my wife: 'Guess what?"'
Captain Frost has moved through the ranks to be a pilot, as well as taking on the role of operations manager.
He has also gained more qualifications, including an airline transport pilot's licence (similar to a jumbo pilot), a night rating, a command instrument rating and a multi-engine helicopter endorsement.
Telstra ChildFlight, which is the world's first inter-hospital retrieval service dedicated to babies and children, is also the only such service in Australia to fly with two pilots for added safety.
Frost flies either of the service's two modified helicopters -- ChildFlight 1 or ChildFlight 11 -- which can stay in the air for up to four hours without refuelling.
The pilot's job involves working a 48-hour shift, then having four days off, then two days on standby.
While working his 48-hour shift, Frost lives on base. There is maintenance, preparation and paperwork to be done in addition to flying but the main emphasis is on being well-rested at all times in case a job comes up -- so the pace is relaxed between missions.
A complicated system ensures that if the flying team works more than a total of 10 hours within the shift, they are replaced by the standby team until they are rested.
Calls for the Telstra ChildFlight helicopter come through the NSW Newborn and Paediatric Emergency Transport Service (NETS). Most are for hospital-to-hospital transfers but Telstra ChildFlight also backs up other emergency services and attends searches and accidents when needed.
Telstra ChildFlight is based at Westmead Hospital but can fly patients to any of the 10 hospitals in Sydney, Newcastle and Canberra which are equipped to treat severely ill children.
"The best part of my job is knowing that I'm helping people, that my job does make a difference to people for the better -- although it doesn't always happen that way," he says.
He says he is fairly resilient to the emotional stress that comes with helping sick -- and sometimes fatally ill -- children but it is impossible not to get involved in some cases.
Frost says very few pilots work their way up through volunteer positions as he did.
Nevertheless, he says people who dream of flying should take heart from the fact that anything is possible. "When I started learning to fly in my early 30s all the ex-military guys said I was too old and wouldn't make it," he says. "Now they're trying to hire me, so I had the last laugh."
High-flying opportunity
Jobs at Telstra ChildFlight and similar emergency services rarely come up and are generally offered to experienced and qualified pilots
Get a start in the industry by joining the armed forces or privately learning to fly a plane or helicopter
Telstra ChildFlight pilots earn about $85,000 although a proportion of this is salary sacrificed into superannuation
Checkout www.childflight.org.au
Story by Jo Roger, The Daily Telegraph, August 30, 2003.
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How about this TQ: I know of a gentleman from GA who got into Freedom Air at the age of 62. Had some twin hours, not sure how many but around 500 - 1000 at a guess. He got to line, so whats the theory behind hours for age I wonder?
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Dont know if this helps but i had a Cathay interview for s/o at age 38 and with 3000 hrs.
Didnt get in but at least they were willing to look at me at that age and experience.
Didnt get in but at least they were willing to look at me at that age and experience.
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The age thing
Hi, I have been amazed at the age level that the average person is targeting as possibly getting past it. I can vouch for the fact that the medical is the only limiting factor.
When I was 50 people said that I was too old to try for a Commercial Licence.
When I reached 55 people said that I would never make the Instrument Rating.
When I reached 62 with 3000hrs power I got a job flying a 737/300- believe it or not I couldnt handle the culture.
Yesterday we returned back from Oz looking at the prospect of flying in the Ag scene where I discoverd the Flying Doctor option.
Most of the guys settled down after I told them that I was 67 and became quite supportive.
I also picked up a Super Duper 10 degree Driver from The Perth Pro shop sited under the Meyers building in The Mall. johnshutt
When I was 50 people said that I was too old to try for a Commercial Licence.
When I reached 55 people said that I would never make the Instrument Rating.
When I reached 62 with 3000hrs power I got a job flying a 737/300- believe it or not I couldnt handle the culture.
Yesterday we returned back from Oz looking at the prospect of flying in the Ag scene where I discoverd the Flying Doctor option.
Most of the guys settled down after I told them that I was 67 and became quite supportive.
I also picked up a Super Duper 10 degree Driver from The Perth Pro shop sited under the Meyers building in The Mall. johnshutt
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I had a mid life crisis started at 28 just got into a fantastic regional with under 2000 hrs at 41. Coudnt support my finacial committments as a pilot on GA so always had to do a few jobs but it paid off in the end thank goodness.
