Work for free.... Are you mad !!!!!
From another thread:
Lead Balloon
Still just another number
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posted 24th June 2003 19:26
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Winstun is Creampuff
Winstun is Creampuff's alter-ego.
I mean Creampuff hasn't posted since Winstun turned up....
And I happen to know that a "Winstun" is an old Celtic word for Profiterole.
Interesting theory. Interesting indeed.......... Similar ego, similar intelligence. And by my calculations, there is a strong chance that Creamie has actually met a real astronaught!
But we are wandering off the thread again........
Lead Balloon
Still just another number
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posted 24th June 2003 19:26
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Winstun is Creampuff
Winstun is Creampuff's alter-ego.
I mean Creampuff hasn't posted since Winstun turned up....
And I happen to know that a "Winstun" is an old Celtic word for Profiterole.
Interesting theory. Interesting indeed.......... Similar ego, similar intelligence. And by my calculations, there is a strong chance that Creamie has actually met a real astronaught!
But we are wandering off the thread again........
Now I’m confused. I thought I was Lead Balloon.
Throw me a friggin’ bone here.
Or should I say: get a life.
What’s an “astronaught” Torres? If it means a student pilot who’s been trained not to touch the controls of a space shuttle, then I have indeed met a number.
And where on earth are you at the moment Lead?
Throw me a friggin’ bone here.
Or should I say: get a life.
What’s an “astronaught” Torres? If it means a student pilot who’s been trained not to touch the controls of a space shuttle, then I have indeed met a number.
And where on earth are you at the moment Lead?
In Sunny Boxorough
I'm, in sunny Boxborough Massachusettes at the moment Creampuff. Just up the road, a way, from SLC Utah, I'll drop in on my way back to Oz next week.
BTW - beach house purchased - beers on me.
And Torres... everyone knows that Creampuff/Winstun would never give up his/her true identity as Lead Balloon/LeadSled
Tottle Pip!
BTW - beach house purchased - beers on me.
And Torres... everyone knows that Creampuff/Winstun would never give up his/her true identity as Lead Balloon/LeadSled
Tottle Pip!
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the unions are the only thing that has protected what little there is left of the conditions of drivers
Our union fore fathers would turn in their graves.
expect "freebie" pilots to live in run down caravans or even one case I know, in the back of a utility.
Big deal, its character building...
but what always happens is that unscrupulous operator cuts his prices to below economically viable rates and forces the legitimate operator down the road, out of business.
Its called capitalism , like it or leave it.
We all know the sob stories and hardships that many pilots have to go through to get work and we have all been there and done that.
I'm gonna friggin cry...
Working for free is not a hardship that you have to endure to climb the ladder
No, not something you have to endure. But it might be something you want to do as an invesment in your future earnings. Just like most of you would jump at a shiny bizjet seat start on low coin. Or self typing on 737 for Virgin seat. To me, that is doing it for "free"...but I don't whine bout it...
People need to make a living from doing work
respect and recognition and just need to make a decent living.
Friigin serious? In the wrong business.... Unless you one of the accomplished few that make big time like me.
"Unless you one of the accomplished few that make big time f
wits like me."
Sheesh! Winstun Many Dicks, you're an egotistical, serial w@nker! No one could be that stupid w@nking just one. Now I know why there's a knob on the end - stops you hitting yourself on the head!
(With apologies to Woomera for the language! I'm usually so placid and never, ever use language like that!
)
wits like me."Sheesh! Winstun Many Dicks, you're an egotistical, serial w@nker! No one could be that stupid w@nking just one. Now I know why there's a knob on the end - stops you hitting yourself on the head!
(With apologies to Woomera for the language! I'm usually so placid and never, ever use language like that!
)
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"serial w@nker...love it Torres - of all the things Winnie hadn't claimed to be, it was actually another PPRuNer who picked him in one.
What I love about the guy, is the way he invariably contradicts himself - an ENIGMA.
Several posts back he was blowing his own horn (or serial w@nking) about the huge $$$'s he earns flying the rhs - or is he REALLY a steward?? - of corporate charter aircraft.
However in his latest posting he now admits
I guess you just look at your "low coin" as an "invesment"(sic), Winnie.
BTW, do you speak the way you spell?
I doubt that the F500 execs wouldn't be too impressed if ya did.
Looking forward to the next installment in Winstun's Serial W@nk.
What I love about the guy, is the way he invariably contradicts himself - an ENIGMA.
Several posts back he was blowing his own horn
(or serial w@nking) about the huge $$$'s he earns flying the rhs - or is he REALLY a steward?? - of corporate charter aircraft.However in his latest posting he now admits
Just like most of you would jump at a shiny bizjet seat start on low coin...To me, that is doing it for "free"...but I don't whine bout it...
BTW, do you speak the way you spell?
I doubt that the F500 execs wouldn't be too impressed if ya did.
Looking forward to the next installment in Winstun's Serial W@nk.
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404, not even trying. It is just when I state the facts on any particular matter, some here get woundup when their self-dellusional fantasy of their 'ethical', 'knowledgeable' good selves comes crashing back to reality...... As usual, these simple types have no comeback....just a comedown to their level of fickle abuse.
Kaptin, are you also not paying attention on flightdeck? I said: ..dont whine bout it....pilots working for free or low coin like yourself... I am only guessing but I am quite confident to suggest the quarterly interest on my tax free bank account exceeds your annual nett income. Good old bitter Aussie envy prevails.
As usual, these simple types have no comeback....just a comedown to their level of fickle abuse.
However in his latest posting he now admits
I am only guessing but I am quite confident to suggest the quarterly interest on my tax free bank account exceeds your annual nett income. Good old bitter Aussie envy prevails.
"I am only guessing but I am quite confident to suggest the quarterly interest on my tax free bank account exceeds your annual nett income."
Kaptin, I just worked out who Winstun is:
BILL CLINTON!
Kaptin, I just worked out who Winstun is:
BILL CLINTON!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
You may well be right, Winnie - "I am only guessing but I am quite confident to suggest the quarterly interest on my tax free bank account exceeds your annual nett income." - but does your tax free bank account have any relativity to your income (or lack of) paid to you as a pilot/assassin/doctor/lawyer/astronaut (or whatever you purport to be this week), Winstun?
Or does it subsidise your "mission" to be one of the above?
You're right, 404, although I think the spring might be a little too tightly wound with Winnie/Walter.
When he's finally exposed, we'll probably find he doesn't have one hour of actual flight time - except the poling (aka "serial w@nking") he's done here.
A good example of what happens to you when you fly for free!!
Or does it subsidise your "mission" to be one of the above?
You're right, 404, although I think the spring might be a little too tightly wound with Winnie/Walter.
When he's finally exposed, we'll probably find he doesn't have one hour of actual flight time - except the poling (aka "serial w@nking") he's done here.
A good example of what happens to you when you fly for free!!
So Winnie the Poo what aircraft do you actually fly for a F500 company. You brag about all your accomplishments in life but you have failed to tell us what aircraft you fly except that you like cruising at FL510. So Winnie be a man and tell us what you fly or are you just a sissy because in reality it’s all in your mind.
I'matightbastard
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This is great. I usally hang out in Jet Blast which they say is "Not for the faint of heart". But let me say it's waaaaaaaaaay more 'interesting' in here.
Lots of good replies here. I would have to agree that working without pay arguably hurts other pilots and operators and I understand the idea of collective bargaining, but I don't think it's that simple.
I'll have to reread the thread to get the names to match the quotes, but whoever said they'd never worked for free, I'd respond that they'd been quite lucky/well positioned/good at negotiating, whatever. I suspect that's more of an exception than the norm. Maybe that would make an interesting poll.
I also think the idea of looking on it as further/advanced training is a valid one that will put the discussion in a different light.
As for myself, as I said, I haul checks for free, but I do it part time, once a week in the evening - after 8 hours at my real job. If I don't want to go one week, I can just tell them and it's ok, though there's probably some kind of limit on that. Do I take someone else's job? Quite the opposite in fact. All the 'real' pilots are on salary, so when I fly, it means they get the evening off, which I imagine they appreciate.
Any money they save by not paying me, I'm foolish enough to believe they put into the maintenance of the a/c, which along with insurance, requalification etc is, if not payment to me, then at least payment on my behalf. I look on it as a form of symbiosis.
Lots of good replies here. I would have to agree that working without pay arguably hurts other pilots and operators and I understand the idea of collective bargaining, but I don't think it's that simple.
I'll have to reread the thread to get the names to match the quotes, but whoever said they'd never worked for free, I'd respond that they'd been quite lucky/well positioned/good at negotiating, whatever. I suspect that's more of an exception than the norm. Maybe that would make an interesting poll.
I also think the idea of looking on it as further/advanced training is a valid one that will put the discussion in a different light.
As for myself, as I said, I haul checks for free, but I do it part time, once a week in the evening - after 8 hours at my real job. If I don't want to go one week, I can just tell them and it's ok, though there's probably some kind of limit on that. Do I take someone else's job? Quite the opposite in fact. All the 'real' pilots are on salary, so when I fly, it means they get the evening off, which I imagine they appreciate.
Any money they save by not paying me, I'm foolish enough to believe they put into the maintenance of the a/c, which along with insurance, requalification etc is, if not payment to me, then at least payment on my behalf. I look on it as a form of symbiosis.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Do I take someone else's job? Quite the opposite in fact. All the 'real' pilots are on salary, so when I fly, it means they get the evening off, which I imagine they appreciate.
.....and that's what the guy who flies for free on Saturdays says, too.
Come to think of it, so does the one who does it for nicks, on Sundays.
So now, all the "real" pilots can have nights and week-ends off.
But hey, hang on, the Boss is helping another couple of inexperienced guys fly his expensive machinery, at no cost to them, on weekdays................so that the "real" pilots can have time off during the week to spend with their kids.
As a matter of fact, the Boss is soooo generous that he's told ALL of the pilots who want to work for him for a salary, that he'd rather see them spending ALL their time at home.
Until you guys who work for free, and who offer to work for less than the award realise that it is YOU who is *#@king this industry - not only for the incumbents, but for YOURSELVES, by the time you have decided that you're worth something - flying for a living will eventually become a short term "hobby job" - something you do for a couple of years, to get it "out of your system", until you realise that it doesn't pay the bills, let alone give you the return on the MASSIVE outlay (in dollar and time terms) you made to get your licence(s).
.....and that's what the guy who flies for free on Saturdays says, too.
Come to think of it, so does the one who does it for nicks, on Sundays.
So now, all the "real" pilots can have nights and week-ends off.
But hey, hang on, the Boss is helping another couple of inexperienced guys fly his expensive machinery, at no cost to them, on weekdays................so that the "real" pilots can have time off during the week to spend with their kids.
As a matter of fact, the Boss is soooo generous that he's told ALL of the pilots who want to work for him for a salary, that he'd rather see them spending ALL their time at home.
Until you guys who work for free, and who offer to work for less than the award realise that it is YOU who is *#@king this industry - not only for the incumbents, but for YOURSELVES, by the time you have decided that you're worth something - flying for a living will eventually become a short term "hobby job" - something you do for a couple of years, to get it "out of your system", until you realise that it doesn't pay the bills, let alone give you the return on the MASSIVE outlay (in dollar and time terms) you made to get your licence(s).
My point exactly Kaptin. I’m sure the massive number of recently unemployed American pilot’s really appreciate the likes of Onan the Clumsy or is that Onan the Foolish coming over from Limey Land and stealing their jobs but worse doing it for nothing. When will the likes of Onan the idiot realize that what they are doing today will come back and haunt them tomorrow in piss poor working conditions for everyone.
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WORK FOR FREE?
Well this is very popular with employers! I had it a while ago when I was asked if I was busy on a particular day. When I said no they said they wanted me to go and fix a load of gear for them. When I asked how much they were paying they said as I was not doing anything else they thought I would do it for free! They were a little shocked at my reply!
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Work for free? Nah, course not!
Any pilot that has -
cleaned their windscreen
swiped a card and pumped fuel
helped out during maintenance
loaded bags
etc etc etc
Has done the unthinkable and taken someone elses job by doing it for nothing. (yes, I have worked somewhere that hires people to clean windscreens )
How many somewhat indignant people that have posted on this thread can honestly say they have not done any of these at some time in their career?
I can remember "demarkation disputes". You know, strike action because some idiot picked up a broom who wasn't a cleaner. How many here, at some stage, as a pilot, have swept out a hangar?
I do not believe Onan is working for free. His remuneration is keeping current and not paying for it. Like the flying schools that have youngsters doing odd jobs for an hours flying a week, that type of thing.
My point is, this is quite a grey/contentious issue. It is not as clear cut as "working for nothing" in many cases. Many many aviators are obliged to work for peanuts (or less) these days for their first few hours.
Just in case you are curious -
No, I am not working for free.(award +, I believe)
Yes, the existence of my employment is under threat by someone independently wealthy dabbling in aviation.
No, I am not WINSTUN.
cleaned their windscreen
swiped a card and pumped fuel
helped out during maintenance
loaded bags
etc etc etc
Has done the unthinkable and taken someone elses job by doing it for nothing. (yes, I have worked somewhere that hires people to clean windscreens )
How many somewhat indignant people that have posted on this thread can honestly say they have not done any of these at some time in their career?
I can remember "demarkation disputes". You know, strike action because some idiot picked up a broom who wasn't a cleaner. How many here, at some stage, as a pilot, have swept out a hangar?
I do not believe Onan is working for free. His remuneration is keeping current and not paying for it. Like the flying schools that have youngsters doing odd jobs for an hours flying a week, that type of thing.
My point is, this is quite a grey/contentious issue. It is not as clear cut as "working for nothing" in many cases. Many many aviators are obliged to work for peanuts (or less) these days for their first few hours.
Just in case you are curious -
No, I am not working for free.(award +, I believe)
Yes, the existence of my employment is under threat by someone independently wealthy dabbling in aviation.
No, I am not WINSTUN.
currawong
I think it is you that has a misunderstanding about this whole work for nothing scenario. You seem to have a problem differentiating between the automation and progress of some types of work and working for nothing. If I have to clean my windscreen or pump my own gas it’s not because I have stolen someone’s job, it’s because most of the service stations these days are self-service.
Now you might argue “what about the young kid who is working in the office of the flying school or in the hangar sweeping the floors for free flying hours”. Well guess what he isn’t working for nothing. He may not be paid in cash but the flying school is still having to make a cash provision in the books for the hours the aircraft will fly. When the person eventually cashes in the hours they are private not charter. Oh and the youngster still has to pay tax on it if he or she is over the tax-free threshold.
The fact of the matter is that if Onan the Clumsy didn’t work for free his employer would have to pay someone to do the job. It is a copout to use the excuse that he only does it to keep current. We all had that problem when we were first starting out but there are some of us out there that still have some moral backbone and didn’t stoop to working for nothing. I personally worked as an accountant in a full time job and paid for my fixes on the weekend until a flying job came up. At first it was only part time, which meant that I had to retain my full time job during the week. Later the part time flying position turned into a full time position and I left the accounting job for good.
It isn’t a grey issue at all. It is very black and white. It is only the likes of you and others like Onan the Clumsy that are self centered and immoral that seem to think it is grey.
I think it is you that has a misunderstanding about this whole work for nothing scenario. You seem to have a problem differentiating between the automation and progress of some types of work and working for nothing. If I have to clean my windscreen or pump my own gas it’s not because I have stolen someone’s job, it’s because most of the service stations these days are self-service.
Now you might argue “what about the young kid who is working in the office of the flying school or in the hangar sweeping the floors for free flying hours”. Well guess what he isn’t working for nothing. He may not be paid in cash but the flying school is still having to make a cash provision in the books for the hours the aircraft will fly. When the person eventually cashes in the hours they are private not charter. Oh and the youngster still has to pay tax on it if he or she is over the tax-free threshold.
The fact of the matter is that if Onan the Clumsy didn’t work for free his employer would have to pay someone to do the job. It is a copout to use the excuse that he only does it to keep current. We all had that problem when we were first starting out but there are some of us out there that still have some moral backbone and didn’t stoop to working for nothing. I personally worked as an accountant in a full time job and paid for my fixes on the weekend until a flying job came up. At first it was only part time, which meant that I had to retain my full time job during the week. Later the part time flying position turned into a full time position and I left the accounting job for good.
It isn’t a grey issue at all. It is very black and white. It is only the likes of you and others like Onan the Clumsy that are self centered and immoral that seem to think it is grey.