UAE Students 2003
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UAE Students 2003
Word is that the 2003 intake of students from the United Arab Emirates have chosen QLD to do the training and obs flying this year rather than YPJT again. Considering the positive feedback for the most part about last years intake, i would have thought they would return to the schools in Perth. Anybody shed any light on this subject? Where in QLD? Which flying schools? WHY?
Thanks, max
Thanks, max
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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max,
I'd say most of the schools at JT will not be one bit sorry that they are not coming back. The whole thing was ill conceived from the start and even blind Freddy could see after a quick look at the figures that it was a money loosing venture. Not to mention the fact relevant CARs were initially ignored in relation to charter vs training.
When news of the student visit was first mooted, I seem to recall comments made at the time by our very eminent PPRUNEr Gaunty along the lines of operators crawling over each other to go broke. He was right although quite a few operators did decline to accept any students.
Word from a lot of instructors around the traps was that in many cases they (students) were not in the slightest bit interested in flying rather just sitting there watching the scenery go by. More like rich spoiled Arab kids on a holiday rather than student pilots.
Oh and lets not forget one extremely serious incident that allegedly occurred between a very experienced instructor and student in a classroom full of said students fellow countrymen.
Someone from RACWA with first hand knowledge might like to shed more light on this one unless the cone of silence has been lowered.
And my all time favourite - the punchup between two of the little darlings at the YPJT bus stop. So much for supervision of those in your care
Qld operators, be afraid - be very afraid!
I'd say most of the schools at JT will not be one bit sorry that they are not coming back. The whole thing was ill conceived from the start and even blind Freddy could see after a quick look at the figures that it was a money loosing venture. Not to mention the fact relevant CARs were initially ignored in relation to charter vs training.
When news of the student visit was first mooted, I seem to recall comments made at the time by our very eminent PPRUNEr Gaunty along the lines of operators crawling over each other to go broke. He was right although quite a few operators did decline to accept any students.
Word from a lot of instructors around the traps was that in many cases they (students) were not in the slightest bit interested in flying rather just sitting there watching the scenery go by. More like rich spoiled Arab kids on a holiday rather than student pilots.
Oh and lets not forget one extremely serious incident that allegedly occurred between a very experienced instructor and student in a classroom full of said students fellow countrymen.
Someone from RACWA with first hand knowledge might like to shed more light on this one unless the cone of silence has been lowered.And my all time favourite - the punchup between two of the little darlings at the YPJT bus stop. So much for supervision of those in your care
Qld operators, be afraid - be very afraid!
Last edited by Islander Jock; 17th Apr 2003 at 23:46.
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I wasn't directly involved preferring to stand back and supply aircraft to others who were, but I don't think "training" describes what they were here for as there were no set objectives as such.
Reports of violence amongst themselves leading to some locals being too afraid to leave their buildings when the "students" were outside waiting for their bus, and a ruck developing inside one of the schools' reception area were particularly worrying, as were certain racial and cultural things that were somewhat "unaustralian".
It was a rather bizarre setup to say the least.
Reports of violence amongst themselves leading to some locals being too afraid to leave their buildings when the "students" were outside waiting for their bus, and a ruck developing inside one of the schools' reception area were particularly worrying, as were certain racial and cultural things that were somewhat "unaustralian".
It was a rather bizarre setup to say the least.
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And where are they now?
Probably sitting in a right seat somewhere, with a logbook full of C152 hours, most of which was done by their instructor. The only good thing that would seem to come from this story is that those instructor gained valuable time.
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max, for a balanced debate perhaps you could elaborate on the "positive feedback"?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...t=uae+students
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...t=uae+students
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hi all, thanks for the replies.
Yes, i too heard about these incidents with the RACWA classroom and at the bus stop - not very comforting. However, i was involved in "training" (and yes, i will use that word carefully
some of these UAE students, and even though they may have at times been not that enthusiastic about the flying, they still seemed to enjoy it. Maybe it was just a holiday for these guys, who cares? The point i would like to make is that the school i am employed at would gladly welcome back more students, who provide a substantial boost to flying during the winter months when new student intake is at its lowest. And with regards to schools not making any money, i believe that this year the terms and rates for training were much more attractive - even though profits were made last time around.
So really, i cant see why schools would look at potential business as a bad thing. Cultural differences aside, they are still students and paying customers who may be providing work for companies at a time when flying is not considered as the most desirable career path in light of the last few years events.
Anyway, thats my thinking on the topic. I would be interested to see if there are any more people out there who agree.....
And, i ask again. Does anyone know who and where in QLD these guys are going?
Thanks, max.
Yes, i too heard about these incidents with the RACWA classroom and at the bus stop - not very comforting. However, i was involved in "training" (and yes, i will use that word carefully
some of these UAE students, and even though they may have at times been not that enthusiastic about the flying, they still seemed to enjoy it. Maybe it was just a holiday for these guys, who cares? The point i would like to make is that the school i am employed at would gladly welcome back more students, who provide a substantial boost to flying during the winter months when new student intake is at its lowest. And with regards to schools not making any money, i believe that this year the terms and rates for training were much more attractive - even though profits were made last time around. So really, i cant see why schools would look at potential business as a bad thing. Cultural differences aside, they are still students and paying customers who may be providing work for companies at a time when flying is not considered as the most desirable career path in light of the last few years events.
Anyway, thats my thinking on the topic. I would be interested to see if there are any more people out there who agree.....
And, i ask again. Does anyone know who and where in QLD these guys are going?
Thanks, max.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Anti Skid,
I would have thought that valuable time instructing would be better measured by seeing some quantifiable result in the training imparted onto the student and subsequent standard achieved.
The only good thing that would seem to come from this story is that those instructor gained valuable time.
Last edited by Islander Jock; 21st Apr 2003 at 03:36.
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max, perhaps you need to direct your question to the organisers of the whole thing, ie the university people.
Perhaps they prefer the QLD climate at that time of year?
Personally I'm glad they aren't coming back, it may have provided a boost for those who were having a slow winter, but for the rest of us trying to conduct "business as usual" for our regular and local customers and who didn't need that kind of business it was quite disruptive, Jandakot doesn't have room for unlimited training as had already become obvious in the previous year's large intake of foreign students from another part of the Arab world, and the infrastructure gets stretched to its limit. What Jandakot needs are more places which provide long term steady employment and business. Not these one off "get broke quick" schemes.
And they were not just disruptive in the air, but in the lunch bar too!
Perhaps they prefer the QLD climate at that time of year?
Personally I'm glad they aren't coming back, it may have provided a boost for those who were having a slow winter, but for the rest of us trying to conduct "business as usual" for our regular and local customers and who didn't need that kind of business it was quite disruptive, Jandakot doesn't have room for unlimited training as had already become obvious in the previous year's large intake of foreign students from another part of the Arab world, and the infrastructure gets stretched to its limit. What Jandakot needs are more places which provide long term steady employment and business. Not these one off "get broke quick" schemes.
And they were not just disruptive in the air, but in the lunch bar too!
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Bunch of bugga's by the sound of it. How come all the punch ups happen when I'm not about???, I like a good punch up...... great spectater sport. I spose we will have to go back to watching all the locals doing/saying their thing...... no where as good in the entertainment department. 
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Charlie Foxtrot India,
What an unusual choice of words...........some might even say sour grapes? And without sounding rude, it is unfortunate that the schools who didn't participate in the program feel this way. And as you say, you "prefered to stand back and supply aircraft to others ", so i would imagine that you don't cross hire aircraft at a loss.
However, i do sympathise with you on the lunch bar issue.......
max
"get broke quick" schemes
However, i do sympathise with you on the lunch bar issue.......
max
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Islander Jock
Agree that safety should be paramount, but was referring to your comment from other instructors -
Word from a lot of instructors around the traps was that in many cases they (students) were not in the slightest bit interested in flying rather just sitting there watching the scenery go by. More like rich spoiled Arab kids on a holiday rather than student pilots.
I am paying many dollars NOT to be the sightseer, but it seems those instructors knowledge and skills may have fallen on deaf ears (or sightseeing eyes!)
Agree that safety should be paramount, but was referring to your comment from other instructors -
Word from a lot of instructors around the traps was that in many cases they (students) were not in the slightest bit interested in flying rather just sitting there watching the scenery go by. More like rich spoiled Arab kids on a holiday rather than student pilots.
I am paying many dollars NOT to be the sightseer, but it seems those instructors knowledge and skills may have fallen on deaf ears (or sightseeing eyes!)
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max,
Dictionary definition of Sour Grapes: "The pretence of despising something only because one cannot have it".
I remember this being bandied about, that I and other non-participants had somehow been "rejected" for this grandiose scheme; this was not the case, and is fairly typical of the type of rubbish that comes from certain areas of the airfield and which could be considered defamatory if it wasn't so ridiculous and ignorant!
Check your private messages.
Dictionary definition of Sour Grapes: "The pretence of despising something only because one cannot have it".
I remember this being bandied about, that I and other non-participants had somehow been "rejected" for this grandiose scheme; this was not the case, and is fairly typical of the type of rubbish that comes from certain areas of the airfield and which could be considered defamatory if it wasn't so ridiculous and ignorant!
Check your private messages.
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As a former aviation instructor who worked in the Middle East for 6+ years I totally sympathise with the new instructors in Oz. Learning is a process that requires both parties importing and absorbing information. Middle Eastern students are sometimes hard pressed to absorb technical input. They know that when they return to M.E. they will have a guaranteed job for life if they have a magic piece of paper or not (the better the paper the better the money), and view Oz etc. as a holiday camp at the govt's expense. But there are a few who are good!
The climate might have a bit to do with the location change. The fathers of previous students might have been able to use their 'wasta' (influence) to change the location for future students (sons).
You really do have to have a different mind set when dealing with these people!
My humble advise is to grab the money and run, lock up your daughters, get them back home as quick as you can!
AND.... GET THE MONEY UP FRONT!!!!!!!!
This cannot be overstated! Blood and Stone are two words that come to mind!
The climate might have a bit to do with the location change. The fathers of previous students might have been able to use their 'wasta' (influence) to change the location for future students (sons).
You really do have to have a different mind set when dealing with these people!
My humble advise is to grab the money and run, lock up your daughters, get them back home as quick as you can!
AND.... GET THE MONEY UP FRONT!!!!!!!!
This cannot be overstated! Blood and Stone are two words that come to mind!
