Does Qantas consider Virgin experience?
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Does Qantas consider Virgin experience?
I know that I am lucky to have a job with Virgin but I feel that the future is rather limited amongst other things and am thinking of putting in an application with Qantas. How would they view my Virgin experience? Would they consider me ratting on my employer? Those that I have discreetly (mind you, only three)asked at work if they have or know of anyone at Virgin who has put in an application to Qantas seem to be awfully quiet about it.
I don't know whether or not this is a wind up, but here goes. . .
Given the current world issues and subsequent outlook of the industry as whole, I don't think that now would be the best time to be running away from an existing job that is fairly secure!
My name gives away what I do for a living and I was fairly depressed recently to find:
and then. . .
from the Qantas newsroom.
I realise that it was a fair queastion but, stay where you are and be grateful that you have a job because you're in a much better position than some of us out here!!
Cheers. . .
GA Driver
Given the current world issues and subsequent outlook of the industry as whole, I don't think that now would be the best time to be running away from an existing job that is fairly secure!
My name gives away what I do for a living and I was fairly depressed recently to find:
* permanent staff reductions through attrition and not filling vacant positions;
* a freeze on the hiring of new staff;
I realise that it was a fair queastion but, stay where you are and be grateful that you have a job because you're in a much better position than some of us out here!!
Cheers. . .
GA Driver
Nunc est bibendum
Be careful what you believe in news reports.
GA Driver, whilst QF may have put on hold things for the time being with respect to crew (and there has been nothing announced that I'm aware of that suggests there has been but logic may suggest that), I wouldn't believe what reports like the one you quoted about tech crew too often. More often than not they are targeted at 'other' areas of the company where you have to take someone from a different department before you can take a newbie off the street. Saves on redundancies and so on. Obviously, this doesn't work real well with techies as it is pretty difficult to find a groundie with the appropriate experience to transfer across.
Things aren't flash at the moment. They will improve. As one particularlly famous QF 767 driver says..........'Stick with it'.
Things aren't flash at the moment. They will improve. As one particularlly famous QF 767 driver says..........'Stick with it'.
Interesting question.
I guess in a way things are limited - in that the operation doesn't have multiple types and a large O/S network BUT
On the other hand - and I assume that you are a pilot - we don 't have second officers, we don't have a system that is as formal as QF, we don't have a list of pilots that is rather long - which means that promotion is based on how many numbers are above you..
BOTH QF and DJ are probably as secure as each other for pilots - which is saying something for aviation!
It depends on what you want out of life I suppose. Joining QF now is going to see you at the bottom of a long list, and things are starting to slow down. This means that promotion prospects are going to slow down. A slow down of promotion prospects means by extension that you may spend longer than others have as a second officer or a first officer - some older PUITS may never see a command in their career due to this.
You probably can't look at people in the system at the moment and judge your promotion prospects on their progress through the system.
That being said, they are paid better than the Virgin troops at the moment.
In Virgin the possibility exists for a reasonably quick command, the route structure is expanding, but you probably will never see Paris or Rome on a Virgin overnight. You probably will never also fly the jumbo or the A380. And you probably will not reach the current salary levels of the AF guys/gals.
BUT if you are of the opinion that the grass is greener - you should stick your application in and see how you go - you don't have to make a decision until they offer you a job.
REMEMBER the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side of the fence.
I guess in a way things are limited - in that the operation doesn't have multiple types and a large O/S network BUT
On the other hand - and I assume that you are a pilot - we don 't have second officers, we don't have a system that is as formal as QF, we don't have a list of pilots that is rather long - which means that promotion is based on how many numbers are above you..
BOTH QF and DJ are probably as secure as each other for pilots - which is saying something for aviation!
It depends on what you want out of life I suppose. Joining QF now is going to see you at the bottom of a long list, and things are starting to slow down. This means that promotion prospects are going to slow down. A slow down of promotion prospects means by extension that you may spend longer than others have as a second officer or a first officer - some older PUITS may never see a command in their career due to this.
You probably can't look at people in the system at the moment and judge your promotion prospects on their progress through the system.
That being said, they are paid better than the Virgin troops at the moment.
In Virgin the possibility exists for a reasonably quick command, the route structure is expanding, but you probably will never see Paris or Rome on a Virgin overnight. You probably will never also fly the jumbo or the A380. And you probably will not reach the current salary levels of the AF guys/gals.
BUT if you are of the opinion that the grass is greener - you should stick your application in and see how you go - you don't have to make a decision until they offer you a job.
REMEMBER the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side of the fence.
Nunc est bibendum
And one other thing...
The other thing that I neglected to mention GA driver is that in the past, QF has still taken on pilots even with the rest of the company subject to employment bans and other restrictions similar to the ones that you quote out of the paper.
DHD is right about QF. Command is about eight years (for AO) and about 10-12ish for 'mainline'. It depends on what you want out of aviation. QF 767 F/Os that don't 'rotate' will earn more than a DJ captain. QF 737 F/Os will probably be in the same place. Even with the figures quoted previously on PPRUNE in three years time I think that will still be the case if we do that comparison again in a few years. However, if you have the desire to be in the left seat ASAP then DJ may be the place to stay. The flip side to that is whilst QF have a long list of guys, you can at least have some assurances that if your number comes up, you can go for promotion (but I'm a believer in seniority and the opportunities it presents).
DHD is right about QF. Command is about eight years (for AO) and about 10-12ish for 'mainline'. It depends on what you want out of aviation. QF 767 F/Os that don't 'rotate' will earn more than a DJ captain. QF 737 F/Os will probably be in the same place. Even with the figures quoted previously on PPRUNE in three years time I think that will still be the case if we do that comparison again in a few years. However, if you have the desire to be in the left seat ASAP then DJ may be the place to stay. The flip side to that is whilst QF have a long list of guys, you can at least have some assurances that if your number comes up, you can go for promotion (but I'm a believer in seniority and the opportunities it presents).
Metro Boy
Your experience at VB would be valued no differently to an instuctor from Bankstown. You know the deal with the testing. I would have thought the QF train set quite apparent.
As for leaving VB for QF. I would think that foolish. Unless you have failed your command upgrade exhausting promotional opportunities within VB.
A 737 command next year would be far better than S/O time if you were to be dumped on the world market. And don't doubt the possibility of being dumped onto a world market.
I could think of many scenarios, never recently dreamed, of where even the mighty QF could retrench pilots ( sadly of course ).
We have a foreign policy as visible as Israel's in the Middle East now. Nigtmare terrorist scenarios come to mind.
Get that first jet command Metro. It will open up opportunities in the event of an aviation doomsday in Australia.
Your experience at VB would be valued no differently to an instuctor from Bankstown. You know the deal with the testing. I would have thought the QF train set quite apparent.
As for leaving VB for QF. I would think that foolish. Unless you have failed your command upgrade exhausting promotional opportunities within VB.
A 737 command next year would be far better than S/O time if you were to be dumped on the world market. And don't doubt the possibility of being dumped onto a world market.
I could think of many scenarios, never recently dreamed, of where even the mighty QF could retrench pilots ( sadly of course ).
We have a foreign policy as visible as Israel's in the Middle East now. Nigtmare terrorist scenarios come to mind.
Get that first jet command Metro. It will open up opportunities in the event of an aviation doomsday in Australia.
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Thanks guys. I consider myself very lucky to have a job with Virgin but my main concern is the amount of time that I have been spending away from home. It really is an individual choice as to what you want out of a job.
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Metroboy- QF are happy to take people on with multi crew jet time. Your experience may get you to the 1st stage a bit earlier than someone from GA but they like a mix of applicants. As the great Sir Richard himself said and I quote"If they want Qantas wages let them work for Qantas".
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Metro, just a thought about chanding to QF. You will enter a very different cutlure compared to DJ. No longer an informal bunch of pilots for the most part enjoying their flying. QF as a long established airline is steeped in the very structured military way of the chain of command. Many, but not all, QF captains have that god like aura about them that may be hard to get us to after flying for DJ
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I take it that you work for or used to work for QF Sam. Or are you just espousing a bull**** generalisation?
Everyone can only go by their own personal experiences and perspective. I have been in QF for a year and don't really find any differences to Ansett, crew-wise.
And what's with the comment about DJ pilots enjoying their flying and QF pilots not??!!
Everyone can only go by their own personal experiences and perspective. I have been in QF for a year and don't really find any differences to Ansett, crew-wise.
And what's with the comment about DJ pilots enjoying their flying and QF pilots not??!!
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Callbutton- what type were you flying? The AN 737 operation was a very relaxed operation compared to the 744. The best 744 Captains I have flown with are those who have just come across form the 767. As ccsam stated there are some Captains who think that because they have been in QF since before Armstrong walked on the moon then every utterance is a pearl of wisdom. Back to the original post though Metroboy if you want to fly longhaul or if you are not happy where you are apply to QF.
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Metro,
Without trying to sound too soppy, follow your heart. If you make the jump and regret it sure you'll feel bad, but I think of ten years down the track when your kicking yourself saying "What if and shuolda when I coulda" is going to feel like! You don't sound satisfied with DJ, now doubt you have your reasons, if they don't look like dissipating sometime soon, I would go for it!
88B
Without trying to sound too soppy, follow your heart. If you make the jump and regret it sure you'll feel bad, but I think of ten years down the track when your kicking yourself saying "What if and shuolda when I coulda" is going to feel like! You don't sound satisfied with DJ, now doubt you have your reasons, if they don't look like dissipating sometime soon, I would go for it!
88B
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Thanks for your input everyone but it looks like I'll be stating put for the time being. Spoke to QF recruiting the other day and they aren't even doing psych. tests now. Seems this SARS thing isn't doing them much good.
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Seems to me Metro that you don't have the interest or the motivation to be employed by Virgin, let alone Qantas, or any body else for that matter!
Why not try selling used cars and give some one else a go at the job you obviously don't appreciate!!
Why not try selling used cars and give some one else a go at the job you obviously don't appreciate!!
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I was wondering when someone would tell Metro to pull his head in. Must be a total Ba$tard flying the newest aircraft in the country in a company that is expanding at an incredible rate. Do you even remember what it took to get you to where you are now Metro? Good luck incidently with your QF aspirations but whilst you're gainly employed by VB be very farken thankful sport. Life could be a hell of a lot worse. For your sake I hope the grass is greener but chances are it'll be the same ****e, different company.
Onya
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Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely grateful to be where I am. I just want a more diverse career structure. Nothing wrong with that is there? By the way Amos, I DID sell used cars to finance my flying too. (Wanna buy a good Datsun 180B? Only 120,000 on the clock - send us a PM if interested)
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Another soldier of fortune I see!
Seen plenty of your lot in the last 40yrs!
They all end up as losers on the scrap heap...as well as being clicked with clackers walking through the terminal at Munich or where ever!
Let me give you the best advise you will ever get Metro...stick with what you have with Virgin, progress through the ranks, and you and your family will thank me in 30/40 yrs time!!
Seen plenty of your lot in the last 40yrs!
They all end up as losers on the scrap heap...as well as being clicked with clackers walking through the terminal at Munich or where ever!
Let me give you the best advise you will ever get Metro...stick with what you have with Virgin, progress through the ranks, and you and your family will thank me in 30/40 yrs time!!