ex-Ansett drivers enjoy the high life in Air Mekong
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
Wiz, I think your second paragraph pretty much answers your OWN hypothetical questions that follow, when you wrote:
As pointed out earlier, how do YOU consider that the ex-AN people flying in Cambodia qualify for that position, by reason of the following:
(a) the Chief Pilot of Air Mekong is NOT B737 type rated (he is A 320 typed) - yet Air Mekong's only aicraft is a B737;
(b)the ex-AN people do NOT hold Cambodian licences - but the Air Mekong 737 is Cambodian registered;
(c)there ARE type-rated, Cambodian licenced, EXPERIENCED B737 Khmers who could take F/O positions there, but are being PREVENTED from doing so, by your greedy, self-centred colleagues. Additionally, these same "pilots" are all ex-AN "captains", who have grabbed (once again!!) a job opportunity from a younger - and no doubt, more desperate - ex-Ansett F/O, and removed his prospects of staying current a little longer.
During the time I flew with Royal Air Cambodge (through MAS), the co-pilots used were the Khmers - the SAME ones being prevented employment now. They had no B737 EFIS time, most having flown the B732 and Russian fighters, but they were being brought to a standard that would have seen them upgraded to the lhs by now, had RAC not collapsed.
The answer to this one is found in YOUR OWN second paragraph, Wiz. 
There are quite a number of "new" airlines being set up in Japan, of which one is the one I work for. We were trained by JAL Captains, and are still checked by JAL Captains - we even enjoy a drink or 3 on nightstops and at home with them
Would you say that that sounds like the way people who were " undercut(ting) the pay and conditions of existing pilots" would be treated?
Quite simply, the retirement rate of the Japanese pilots is going to see almost 40% of them leave in the next 3 - 4 years, and there is no possible way that they are able to train and promote the present F/O's to fill the vacancies, under the current conditions.
This airline is now promoting F/O's to the lhs in RECORD time - 3 years from joining as a GA pilot - and with MINIMUM qualifications (3,000 hours total). Even that is not fast enough.
Hence the requirement for foreigners.
And because of the shortage of LOCALS, that is the reason that SIA, MAS, Gulf, Emirates etc recruit foreigners.
Conditions for expats are ALWAYS different (if employed as an expatriate) from that of the locals, a little less here, a little more there.
However, a shortage of "locals" is NOT the case with Air Mekong - those guys are being effectively "locked out"!
Edit:
Totally uncalled for, umemployed. My wife was visibly upset when she read your slanderous and racist comments.
Kap, in the REAL WORLD (Definition: That which occurs outside Kap Ms hatred- fevored mind. Source- The Oxford Concise.) a company decides it wants X qualifications for a job and advertises for such. Person Y, having said qualifications, applys and is accepted/rejected accordingly
(a) the Chief Pilot of Air Mekong is NOT B737 type rated (he is A 320 typed) - yet Air Mekong's only aicraft is a B737;
(b)the ex-AN people do NOT hold Cambodian licences - but the Air Mekong 737 is Cambodian registered;
(c)there ARE type-rated, Cambodian licenced, EXPERIENCED B737 Khmers who could take F/O positions there, but are being PREVENTED from doing so, by your greedy, self-centred colleagues. Additionally, these same "pilots" are all ex-AN "captains", who have grabbed (once again!!) a job opportunity from a younger - and no doubt, more desperate - ex-Ansett F/O, and removed his prospects of staying current a little longer.
During the time I flew with Royal Air Cambodge (through MAS), the co-pilots used were the Khmers - the SAME ones being prevented employment now. They had no B737 EFIS time, most having flown the B732 and Russian fighters, but they were being brought to a standard that would have seen them upgraded to the lhs by now, had RAC not collapsed.
Did the guys who ACTIVLEY approached John Elliot to fly his 737, thus putting four biz jet pilots who had been promised type ratings on the streets, get life bans
There are quite a number of "new" airlines being set up in Japan, of which one is the one I work for. We were trained by JAL Captains, and are still checked by JAL Captains - we even enjoy a drink or 3 on nightstops and at home with them
Would you say that that sounds like the way people who were " undercut(ting) the pay and conditions of existing pilots" would be treated?Quite simply, the retirement rate of the Japanese pilots is going to see almost 40% of them leave in the next 3 - 4 years, and there is no possible way that they are able to train and promote the present F/O's to fill the vacancies, under the current conditions.
This airline is now promoting F/O's to the lhs in RECORD time - 3 years from joining as a GA pilot - and with MINIMUM qualifications (3,000 hours total). Even that is not fast enough.
Hence the requirement for foreigners.
And because of the shortage of LOCALS, that is the reason that SIA, MAS, Gulf, Emirates etc recruit foreigners.
Conditions for expats are ALWAYS different (if employed as an expatriate) from that of the locals, a little less here, a little more there.
However, a shortage of "locals" is NOT the case with Air Mekong - those guys are being effectively "locked out"!
Edit:
Totally uncalled for, umemployed. My wife was visibly upset when she read your slanderous and racist comments.
Last edited by Kaptin M; 14th Feb 2003 at 22:18.
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Woomera,
Any reason why umemployed's post hasn't been removed and the offender binned? He's broken just about every rule, and is totally offensive - regardless of which side of the fence you're on.
Any reason why umemployed's post hasn't been removed and the offender binned? He's broken just about every rule, and is totally offensive - regardless of which side of the fence you're on.
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No reason other than I have a life and have only just got back to the boards. 02:48 UCT.
He has been banned forthwith.
Kaptin M please accept my apologies for not getting on to it sooner.
I have banned the offender notwithstanding his subsequent apology.
Go for each other by all means, but to abuse an innocent third party in such an unconscionable manner is not only the height of cowardice but a new low in the behaviour on this board.
This kind of behaviour is just not on and serves to confirm the beliefs held by the more extreme of some here of one side. I would hope that his colleagues are equally ashamed.
I would appreciate it if you would please pass on my unreserved apologies to your beautiful wife and family.
He has been banned forthwith.
Kaptin M please accept my apologies for not getting on to it sooner.
I have banned the offender notwithstanding his subsequent apology.
Go for each other by all means, but to abuse an innocent third party in such an unconscionable manner is not only the height of cowardice but a new low in the behaviour on this board.
This kind of behaviour is just not on and serves to confirm the beliefs held by the more extreme of some here of one side. I would hope that his colleagues are equally ashamed.
I would appreciate it if you would please pass on my unreserved apologies to your beautiful wife and family.
Last edited by Woomera; 15th Feb 2003 at 02:00.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
No need for apologies from you, Woomera, we are all aware that you cannot be here 24/7. However, for that same reason the lower end of the gene pool also use the "back of the clock" hours to post their little nasties in an attempt to gain maximum exposure.
Personally, I'm thick-skinned (any of us who have been here for a while have to be), however - like swearing - personal abuse only highlights some individuals' inability to carry out an INTELLIGENT debate. They feel frustrated with themselves - at their inability to express their opinions, and so resort to personal attack. However, that is no excuse for busting the rules on a public forum such as this.
Mrs M was upset to see that sort of slander being posted, and although I reported it to PPRuNe, I felt that - to a certain extent - leaving the post, allowed OTHERS to judge for themselves why one side of a past historical event has zero time for the other....."birds of a feather"! Not that the side I am on was totally blameless either, but to a far lesser extent than the other.
Interestingly, umemployed had also disabled his PM box, and so I wasn't able to send him my thoughts!
Again, W, your apologies are NOT needed, but the gesture appreciated. Thank you.
Personally, I'm thick-skinned (any of us who have been here for a while have to be), however - like swearing - personal abuse only highlights some individuals' inability to carry out an INTELLIGENT debate. They feel frustrated with themselves - at their inability to express their opinions, and so resort to personal attack. However, that is no excuse for busting the rules on a public forum such as this.
Mrs M was upset to see that sort of slander being posted, and although I reported it to PPRuNe, I felt that - to a certain extent - leaving the post, allowed OTHERS to judge for themselves why one side of a past historical event has zero time for the other....."birds of a feather"! Not that the side I am on was totally blameless either, but to a far lesser extent than the other.
Interestingly, umemployed had also disabled his PM box, and so I wasn't able to send him my thoughts!
Again, W, your apologies are NOT needed, but the gesture appreciated. Thank you.
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Entebbe
Charlie, you should really seek professional help. Your pathological thirst for revenge for the events which occurred 14years ago are distorting your reality, along with your credibility.
Ladies & gentlemen, Kapt M as usual does not let the truth get in the way of a chance to satisfy his appetite for revenge but as I reveal the facts in the following paragraphs about Mekong you will see Charlie for what he has become- a bitter and twisted man who is now telling straight out lies. How do I know this? I have been involved in the start up to date.
Fact 1: The current ex-pat pilots in Mekong airlines are not taking the jobs of the locals. The company in fact has employed 4 locals as pilots and are awaiting their release from the Cambodian Civil Aviation Authority. The reason that the Expats were employed was because the Insurance companies and the Investors would not put up any money or provide and assurances unless experienced ex-pats were used for the start-up. The locals are indeed good pilots and after meeting them they seem like nice blokes. However They are not current,( the most recent, an FO has not flown for more then 2years and the only LHS guy with command experience on a B737-200 hasn't flown for about four years. They will all have to do a ground school and full simulator Training along with line training. The current Board at Mekong has at least two Cambodians on it and is committed to hiring locals.
Not one of the locals has anywhere near the command or training experience of the ex-pats employed.
Fact 2: The company wanted 4 experienced Captains and 4 Experienced Fo's initially. They had great difficulty getting Fo's as Qantas, Virgin Blue, Cathay, China Air and EVA etc are all recruiting and the pool of ex- ansett FO's has all but dried up. Some Fo's were offered but would not leave Australia. Fair enough. As with all recruiting some FO's and Captains did not have a good history, hence no offer. Sad but a reality.
Fact 3: The tech crew do not share rooms. This is a complete nonsense. The standard of accommodation is 4 Star or higher and most times it is 5 Star. There is no back of the clock and the last flight lands at 21:15. It is a good route structure
Fact 4: The initial Chief Pilot was A320 rated but has since been stood down. I believe they they have someone else who is more suitably qualified. The other pilots are all very experienced and just do their job. I know these blokes very well and they are all good operators
Fact 5: The salaries quoted are not accurate. Some management may be getting that but the line pilots and FO's are not. If you want the real numbers email the company.
Fact 6: There is a rumour that the American Airline Pilot Association is talking to management and is willing to provide furloughed pilots to Mekong at half the current rates of pay( they obviously have never lived in Cambodia). It will be interesting to see what Kapt M's position on this will be as he was so vocal about the Air Nauru situation( and rightly so). Any thing other than support for the Mekong guys on this matter will be nothing short of hypocrisy on his behalf.
Readers, Mekong is a startup Airline. Will management & staff make some mistakes? Of course they will. Will there be Teething problems? Of course there will be, as there is in any other airline or business throughout the world. What Mekong doesn't need is people like Charlie spreading lies about so he can give himself a daily injection of revenge which he has become addicted to over the past 14 years.
Charlie, as I said at the beginning seek counselling. When I knew you years ago you were rational and stable. I have noticed over the past 12 months your posts becoming more and more bitter. This doesn't do you or your cause any good and I know by telling lies you are also losing your credibility. This is not said in malice. You gave me some good advice 14 years ago- you told me to go back to work. I have never regretted taking that advice. However please take mine- get help before this consumes you. I trust your family is well.
ps. By the way, Charlie please be advised reply if you want but do not try to denigrate me. I and one other have information on you from 14 years ago which would totally destroy your credibility should I chose to release it which I won't unless I'm vilified for what has been posted here today. The above is simply the truth.
Ladies & gentlemen, Kapt M as usual does not let the truth get in the way of a chance to satisfy his appetite for revenge but as I reveal the facts in the following paragraphs about Mekong you will see Charlie for what he has become- a bitter and twisted man who is now telling straight out lies. How do I know this? I have been involved in the start up to date.
Fact 1: The current ex-pat pilots in Mekong airlines are not taking the jobs of the locals. The company in fact has employed 4 locals as pilots and are awaiting their release from the Cambodian Civil Aviation Authority. The reason that the Expats were employed was because the Insurance companies and the Investors would not put up any money or provide and assurances unless experienced ex-pats were used for the start-up. The locals are indeed good pilots and after meeting them they seem like nice blokes. However They are not current,( the most recent, an FO has not flown for more then 2years and the only LHS guy with command experience on a B737-200 hasn't flown for about four years. They will all have to do a ground school and full simulator Training along with line training. The current Board at Mekong has at least two Cambodians on it and is committed to hiring locals.
Not one of the locals has anywhere near the command or training experience of the ex-pats employed.
Fact 2: The company wanted 4 experienced Captains and 4 Experienced Fo's initially. They had great difficulty getting Fo's as Qantas, Virgin Blue, Cathay, China Air and EVA etc are all recruiting and the pool of ex- ansett FO's has all but dried up. Some Fo's were offered but would not leave Australia. Fair enough. As with all recruiting some FO's and Captains did not have a good history, hence no offer. Sad but a reality.
Fact 3: The tech crew do not share rooms. This is a complete nonsense. The standard of accommodation is 4 Star or higher and most times it is 5 Star. There is no back of the clock and the last flight lands at 21:15. It is a good route structure
Fact 4: The initial Chief Pilot was A320 rated but has since been stood down. I believe they they have someone else who is more suitably qualified. The other pilots are all very experienced and just do their job. I know these blokes very well and they are all good operators
Fact 5: The salaries quoted are not accurate. Some management may be getting that but the line pilots and FO's are not. If you want the real numbers email the company.
Fact 6: There is a rumour that the American Airline Pilot Association is talking to management and is willing to provide furloughed pilots to Mekong at half the current rates of pay( they obviously have never lived in Cambodia). It will be interesting to see what Kapt M's position on this will be as he was so vocal about the Air Nauru situation( and rightly so). Any thing other than support for the Mekong guys on this matter will be nothing short of hypocrisy on his behalf.
Readers, Mekong is a startup Airline. Will management & staff make some mistakes? Of course they will. Will there be Teething problems? Of course there will be, as there is in any other airline or business throughout the world. What Mekong doesn't need is people like Charlie spreading lies about so he can give himself a daily injection of revenge which he has become addicted to over the past 14 years.
Charlie, as I said at the beginning seek counselling. When I knew you years ago you were rational and stable. I have noticed over the past 12 months your posts becoming more and more bitter. This doesn't do you or your cause any good and I know by telling lies you are also losing your credibility. This is not said in malice. You gave me some good advice 14 years ago- you told me to go back to work. I have never regretted taking that advice. However please take mine- get help before this consumes you. I trust your family is well.
ps. By the way, Charlie please be advised reply if you want but do not try to denigrate me. I and one other have information on you from 14 years ago which would totally destroy your credibility should I chose to release it which I won't unless I'm vilified for what has been posted here today. The above is simply the truth.
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Your "secret pilots information" is actually fairly common knowledge to a lot of people entebbe,and doesn't really make any difference to us. It's a pity you didn't correct your mistake! 
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
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As an obviously new reader, entebbe, you might wish to give PPRuNer's your name - first will do - so that the playing field is levelled a little.
But then again, those of the ilk with whom you associated over the past 14 years have never been able to play a fair game, have they!
Firstly, let me correct tha apparent persecution complex from which you appear to suffer - I can quite categorically deny that I am trying to "satisfy my revenge".
They are, quite simply "entertainment".
Your first point is very cunningly (and who would have expected otherwise) written. Air Mekong has been operating for quite some time now, and according to my sources (who are locals) the ex-AN people in PHP have no intention of moving aside, and are using the same deceptive wording YOU have to keep them in limbo, eg.
"...experienced ex-pats were used for the start-up."
The Khmer co-pilots have far, far more experience flying in that part of Asia, including Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, and China, than ALL of you put together!
"Not one of the locals has anywhere near the command or training experience of the ex-pats employed."
Really? You might tell Sothik that! And why would training experience be seen as a requirement?
"some FO's and Captains did not have a good history, hence no offer. Sad but a reality." From my understanding ALL of you up there have a past "history" .wrt 1989!
"Fact 3: The tech crew do not share rooms - the FACT is the tech crew DO share ONE room in Siem Reap. But don't let the truth get in the way of your litany. Why don't YOU, entebbe, check on YOUR "facts".
"Fact 4: The initial Chief Pilot was A320 rated but has since been stood down. I believe they they have someone else who is more suitably qualified."
Oh really?!! Who is the "someone", because as at the time I wrote that post (yesterday) the ONLY Chief Pilot was NOT B737 type rated.
You seem quite willing to name names, entebbe - so go ahead, name the Chief Pilot.
"Fact 5: The salaries quoted are not accurate."
I quoted USD7,500 + USD1,000.....total USD8,500. If YOU know a different figure, entebbe then print it HERE, to verify your assertion.
"Fact 6: There is a rumour that the American Airline Pilot Association is talking to management and is willing to provide furloughed pilots to Mekong at half the current rates of pay( they obviously have never lived in Cambodia). It will be interesting to see what Kapt M's position on this will be as he was so vocal about the Air Nauru situation( and rightly so). Any thing other than support for the Mekong guys on this matter will be nothing short of hypocrisy on his behalf."
Now you would HAVE to be joking, entebbe. As a scab in 1989, you had no qualms in shafting the pilots in Australia. Do you REALLY think that your type are going to get any support from me, or anyone else if this were the case!
After all, it was ex-Ansett scabs (again) who were the pilots trying to undercut the pilots in Air Nauru.
"You gave me some good advice 14 years ago- you told me to go back to work."
You have narrowed yourself down to one of three (very junior F/O's back then) people whom I believed had very little chance of survivng in aviation, because of your lack of (airline) experience.
During my time in SQ, I met some ex-AN F/O's who had LESS experience than any of you 3 - 3 months with Ansett pre-Dispute, and refused re-entry. These guys had a lot more grit and determination than you (collectively), and did it hard for a long time - but were successful.
It is a shame that your views were distorted over time, because of your exposure to the real slimebags with whom you shared the cockpit.
"I and one other have information on you from 14 years ago which would totally destroy your credibility should I chose to release it which I won't"
Go ahead - please.
But then again, those of the ilk with whom you associated over the past 14 years have never been able to play a fair game, have they!
Firstly, let me correct tha apparent persecution complex from which you appear to suffer - I can quite categorically deny that I am trying to "satisfy my revenge".
They are, quite simply "entertainment".
Your first point is very cunningly (and who would have expected otherwise) written. Air Mekong has been operating for quite some time now, and according to my sources (who are locals) the ex-AN people in PHP have no intention of moving aside, and are using the same deceptive wording YOU have to keep them in limbo, eg.
"...experienced ex-pats were used for the start-up."
The Khmer co-pilots have far, far more experience flying in that part of Asia, including Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, and China, than ALL of you put together!
"Not one of the locals has anywhere near the command or training experience of the ex-pats employed."
Really? You might tell Sothik that! And why would training experience be seen as a requirement?
"some FO's and Captains did not have a good history, hence no offer. Sad but a reality." From my understanding ALL of you up there have a past "history" .wrt 1989!
"Fact 3: The tech crew do not share rooms - the FACT is the tech crew DO share ONE room in Siem Reap. But don't let the truth get in the way of your litany. Why don't YOU, entebbe, check on YOUR "facts".
"Fact 4: The initial Chief Pilot was A320 rated but has since been stood down. I believe they they have someone else who is more suitably qualified."
Oh really?!! Who is the "someone", because as at the time I wrote that post (yesterday) the ONLY Chief Pilot was NOT B737 type rated.
You seem quite willing to name names, entebbe - so go ahead, name the Chief Pilot.
"Fact 5: The salaries quoted are not accurate."
I quoted USD7,500 + USD1,000.....total USD8,500. If YOU know a different figure, entebbe then print it HERE, to verify your assertion.
"Fact 6: There is a rumour that the American Airline Pilot Association is talking to management and is willing to provide furloughed pilots to Mekong at half the current rates of pay( they obviously have never lived in Cambodia). It will be interesting to see what Kapt M's position on this will be as he was so vocal about the Air Nauru situation( and rightly so). Any thing other than support for the Mekong guys on this matter will be nothing short of hypocrisy on his behalf."
Now you would HAVE to be joking, entebbe. As a scab in 1989, you had no qualms in shafting the pilots in Australia. Do you REALLY think that your type are going to get any support from me, or anyone else if this were the case!
After all, it was ex-Ansett scabs (again) who were the pilots trying to undercut the pilots in Air Nauru.
"You gave me some good advice 14 years ago- you told me to go back to work."
You have narrowed yourself down to one of three (very junior F/O's back then) people whom I believed had very little chance of survivng in aviation, because of your lack of (airline) experience.
During my time in SQ, I met some ex-AN F/O's who had LESS experience than any of you 3 - 3 months with Ansett pre-Dispute, and refused re-entry. These guys had a lot more grit and determination than you (collectively), and did it hard for a long time - but were successful.
It is a shame that your views were distorted over time, because of your exposure to the real slimebags with whom you shared the cockpit.
"I and one other have information on you from 14 years ago which would totally destroy your credibility should I chose to release it which I won't"
Go ahead - please.
