AOPA Elections
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triadic, well said
It maybe an idea to put some of the previous guys back on the board in the next election as AOPA was quite successful up until around 1995, when things changed.
The old saying goes; you have to be in it, to win it.
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triadic
Most sensible thing I've heard in ages, well done.
I suppose I should never haveposted this. It seems as soon as any AOPA person comes up on here he is shot down and dissapears.
Snarek is the only one to come on and answer questions, is usually attacked by the self interested, and then pulls his head in for a while.
I can't believe CFI started the tired old bleat about the AUF again. if you are that good at running a business mate you wouldn't need to regulate the competition out of existence!!!
Get real!!! (and your name is in my logbook too!!!).
Can you blame them for avoiding PPRuNe.
Triadic made a point about personality politics in AOPA, think about it. Who is there that still follows the line of the Smith/Munro presidencies. I'll tell you, Bill Hamilton and Bill Pike. So if that style is not for you, ask them to leave. If you like that style, vote them back in. Who is never heard from, Rudd. The others just seem to get on with it.
But if you ain't a member you ain't changing anything are you
Most sensible thing I've heard in ages, well done.
I suppose I should never haveposted this. It seems as soon as any AOPA person comes up on here he is shot down and dissapears.
Snarek is the only one to come on and answer questions, is usually attacked by the self interested, and then pulls his head in for a while.
I can't believe CFI started the tired old bleat about the AUF again. if you are that good at running a business mate you wouldn't need to regulate the competition out of existence!!!
Get real!!! (and your name is in my logbook too!!!).Can you blame them for avoiding PPRuNe.
Triadic made a point about personality politics in AOPA, think about it. Who is there that still follows the line of the Smith/Munro presidencies. I'll tell you, Bill Hamilton and Bill Pike. So if that style is not for you, ask them to leave. If you like that style, vote them back in. Who is never heard from, Rudd. The others just seem to get on with it.
But if you ain't a member you ain't changing anything are you
Moderator
What tired old bleat? The only mention I have made of the AUF is that I am indifferent to them, and a quote from snarek who seems to think otherwise, but that's news to me.
I sure don't have any power or desire to regulate the AUF or anyone else out of existance. I've never even responded to an NPRM about them.
I'm afraid the two of you have a case of mistaken identity.
I sure don't have any power or desire to regulate the AUF or anyone else out of existance. I've never even responded to an NPRM about them.
I'm afraid the two of you have a case of mistaken identity.
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Nothing would please me better than a strong batch of nominations for the Board, and a strong voter turnout next elections. I do not have an axe to grind, and I would willingly and happily hand over to anyone more representative of the member's views if that is the fact. AOPA's work at opposing CASA's attempted power grab in the laughingly described "simplification " of the rules that is in progress should have the undying gratitude of every, and I mean every, pilot. I am firmly of the view that any aviator who is not a member is assisting to seal his own fate, but that is just the opinion of someone with forty years in the game, what would I know? I am more in line with the Smith/Munro action plans rather than the previous old boy's club way of doing things, which might well have had some effectiveness then, but which would be run over by present day CASA. GA is so disparate that it is impossible to take a position on any matter without offending someone, but I am happy to defend my position, or AOPA's position, on any matter. Anyone who is not a member of AOPA has the support of CASA. (As for ULM s "anonymity", I remember the story of the pilot who stuttered, and one day called"Sssydney Tttower is our ttower, Wwwe use it evvvery day" "Cut it out Tom" returned the Tower. "Hhhow ddid you kknow it wwas mme?")
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AOPA (Australia) lost my support over 10 years ago when it was hijacked by Smith et al for their own political use.
AOPA does not have the ear of the Government
AOPA is no longer relevent or respected
AOPA does not have the ear of the Government
AOPA is no longer relevent or respected
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If AOPA did a little more to embrace flight schools, charter etc into their fold then it could become a true representative of Australian G.A.
Especially Flight Schools as this would open AOPA to a whole new source of members i.e. new students.
Flight Schools and Instructors may well then recommend to new students that AOPA membership is advantageous in the same way as membership is encouraged in other vocational & recreational pursuits.
Amongst other topics; Comments on the AOPA forum (I won't name anyone ) about PPL's becoming Instructors does not endear AOPA to Schools or Instructors.
Yes, I am an AOPA member and a working CPL and every year I wrestle with writing a cheque for my renewal. and every year a good friend convinces me over a beer with the old chestnut ''Gotta be in it to win it' (or similar).
Well, renewal time has arrived and this year I think I might join CFI and give it to the RFDS.
Especially Flight Schools as this would open AOPA to a whole new source of members i.e. new students.
Flight Schools and Instructors may well then recommend to new students that AOPA membership is advantageous in the same way as membership is encouraged in other vocational & recreational pursuits.
Amongst other topics; Comments on the AOPA forum (I won't name anyone
) about PPL's becoming Instructors does not endear AOPA to Schools or Instructors.Yes, I am an AOPA member and a working CPL and every year I wrestle with writing a cheque for my renewal. and every year a good friend convinces me over a beer with the old chestnut ''Gotta be in it to win it' (or similar).
Well, renewal time has arrived and this year I think I might join CFI and give it to the RFDS.
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"AOPA (Australia) lost my support over 10 years ago when it was hijacked by Smith et al for their own political use.
AOPA does not have the ear of the Government
AOPA is no longer relevent or respected"
It is absurd to say that Smith had a political use for AOPA. What on Earth is that supposed to mean? He is already the most popular man in Australia, and polls for President put him way ahead. He could be a Senator any time he wished. Smith gives of his time and effort to achieve a simpler and cheaper aviation scene for Australia. His opponents are those who stand to lose by this.
AOPA does have the ear of the Government. I, as President of AOPA, was invited to address the Senate inquiry into the ATSB bill, and did so. I meet with John Anderson regularly. He has guaranteed to take my phone calls as required. AOPA is both relevant and respected, however it certainly does not have the clout that it would do if its membership was double. We work to simpify, and thereby increase, flying in Austraila. It is unfortunate that some short sighted protectionists cannot always see that this is for the common good. I have been a member of AOPA ever since I learnt that someone was out there trying. I cannot imagine any sensible reason not to be a member. As I am sixty one it is becoming increasingly irrelevant to me but I am forever amazed at the strange reasons some have not to be a member. It is the young instructor's future that we fight for, however if they don't see that, who is punished? Not me.
AOPA does not have the ear of the Government
AOPA is no longer relevent or respected"
It is absurd to say that Smith had a political use for AOPA. What on Earth is that supposed to mean? He is already the most popular man in Australia, and polls for President put him way ahead. He could be a Senator any time he wished. Smith gives of his time and effort to achieve a simpler and cheaper aviation scene for Australia. His opponents are those who stand to lose by this.
AOPA does have the ear of the Government. I, as President of AOPA, was invited to address the Senate inquiry into the ATSB bill, and did so. I meet with John Anderson regularly. He has guaranteed to take my phone calls as required. AOPA is both relevant and respected, however it certainly does not have the clout that it would do if its membership was double. We work to simpify, and thereby increase, flying in Austraila. It is unfortunate that some short sighted protectionists cannot always see that this is for the common good. I have been a member of AOPA ever since I learnt that someone was out there trying. I cannot imagine any sensible reason not to be a member. As I am sixty one it is becoming increasingly irrelevant to me but I am forever amazed at the strange reasons some have not to be a member. It is the young instructor's future that we fight for, however if they don't see that, who is punished? Not me.
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Mr Pike
There have been so many changes and doh se dohs in the last 40 years, I am having a little trouble getting right, the sequence of who did what to who and when.
Would I be correct in saying, that the first Smith AOPA coup d’etat was AFTER his first dabble at being a regulator.???
Might I suggest that the "old boy's club way of doing things" actually, in its own quaint way, worked.
You see it allowed everyone to operate from a position of mutual professional respect.
Confrontational politics rarely work effectively or long term, save to massage an ego or pursue an agenda.
Why then are we now surprised that CASA are effectively deaf to anything coming from this direction or anything associated with Munro/Smith, which is a pity.
Can I turn this around a bit and offer, for consideration;
“I am more in line with the CASA action plans rather than the previous old boy's club way of doing things, which might well have had some effectiveness then, but which would be run over by present day Smith/Munro.”
Quite, and why, pray tell, is this so.
People will follow and they will participate willingly, when they are treated with respect, carefully listened to and not hectored.
Where are ALL those members now?
If this is so and I don't doubt that AOPA have had some effect, then there is something fundamentally awry in the manner in which AOPA is representing itself to these ungrateful wretches.
Somewhere along the track they, AOPA, lost them and failed by the only measure that counts, decreasing membership numbers, to bring them along with the debate. It's called being inclusive with your electorate, the members.
It is actually AOPA that needs them now, not the other way round.
With respect, it was this very same attitude presented to the Minister by a former AOPA VP during a meeting in which he "instructed" the Minister in all manner of aviation matters from his “30 years of experience”, that sidelined AOPA for all practical purposes for some considerable time in those halls.
On top of the Smith/Munro coups d’etat and the subsequent filling of the vacuum they left with this and other pretenders, the organisation was mortally wounded in the eyes of its previous and potential supporters. The members were effectively disenfranchised by the actions of their leaders.
There are very many of us with that length of time in the industry that agree with much of what you say and propose, but choose to present our views in a different manner free from the noise of Smiths personal agenda.
And this is the really scary bit;
Errm……. Smith had a political use for AOPA?
Now maybe? But at what cost and;
He will be neither; he knows well enough that the body politic will demand more than dilettante dabbling and besides there is the real risk that you may have to actually know of which you speak and the very high risk that you will be so judged at the ballot box.
Commitment means you have to stay and fight, even if you reckon your opponents are real d!ckheads because they can’t see the “obvious” rightness of your cause.
You can’t hit and run when it gets hot or blame everybody else for your failure.
The Canberra Press Gallery is an entirely different animal to those that report on school fetes and populist ‘gee whiz’ pap.
It’s ever so much easier to be a “could have”, than “has been”.
I commend to you Paul Sheehan’s “Amongst the Barbarians” for an exquisite explication of the surgical ruthlessness and perspicacity of the Australian voter and what they will and will not, up with put.
And I guess when we need someone to solve the present world agony or the peculiar and unique technical problems we have with our airspace we should simply elect the most “popular” person we can find and let him/her at it. And when he/she is finished with that little problem, why there’s, cancer, world famine or any number of things to keep em busy.
I have significant experience both pre and post Smith and for all the warts of the past, I know which era was better and actually cheaper. I have no doubt that he was well meaning, but he didn’t reveal anything that wasn’t already known and being addressed. The word hijack comes to mind.
Any way you choose to look at it Mr Smith has much for which to answer and that includes the present condition of AOPA.
The problem for the Smiths of this world is that you are either for or against.
I suspect from the feedback on the imbroglio surrounding the NAS Implementation project that there are many who feel that the most constructive contribution Smith can now make to it is to go away, period.
AOPA may get a much more reasonable hearing and better treatment from CASA if it could be seen as not being in the thrall of the past leadership.
Neither can I, if I could be certain that we didn’t have to run interference on everything that wasn’t ordained from on high.
So here is the test, I have tonight, sent off my money and details to regain membership of AOPA.
Now I can be offside with every body equally, it’s a wonderful thing this democracy.
Can’t be fairer than that.
BTW if you happen to be in LRE this weekend, I’d be happy to buy you a beverage and we can have a go at getting a little closer on this thing. There is much to be done.
And hey, I’m now a voter so you’ll have to listen.
There have been so many changes and doh se dohs in the last 40 years, I am having a little trouble getting right, the sequence of who did what to who and when.
Would I be correct in saying, that the first Smith AOPA coup d’etat was AFTER his first dabble at being a regulator.???
I am more in line with the Smith/Munro action plans rather than the previous old boy's club way of doing things, which might well have had some effectiveness then, but which would be run over by present day CASA.
You see it allowed everyone to operate from a position of mutual professional respect.
Confrontational politics rarely work effectively or long term, save to massage an ego or pursue an agenda.
Why then are we now surprised that CASA are effectively deaf to anything coming from this direction or anything associated with Munro/Smith, which is a pity.
Can I turn this around a bit and offer, for consideration;
“I am more in line with the CASA action plans rather than the previous old boy's club way of doing things, which might well have had some effectiveness then, but which would be run over by present day Smith/Munro.”
AOPA is both relevant and respected, however it certainly does not have the clout that it would do if its membership was double.
People will follow and they will participate willingly, when they are treated with respect, carefully listened to and not hectored.
Where are ALL those members now?
AOPA's work at opposing CASA's attempted power grab in the laughingly described "simplification " of the rules that is in progress should have the undying gratitude of every, and I mean every, pilot.
Somewhere along the track they, AOPA, lost them and failed by the only measure that counts, decreasing membership numbers, to bring them along with the debate. It's called being inclusive with your electorate, the members.
It is actually AOPA that needs them now, not the other way round.
but that is just the opinion of someone with forty years in the game, what would I know?
the Minister in all manner of aviation matters from his “30 years of experience”, that sidelined AOPA for all practical purposes for some considerable time in those halls.On top of the Smith/Munro coups d’etat and the subsequent filling of the vacuum they left with this and other pretenders, the organisation was mortally wounded in the eyes of its previous and potential supporters. The members were effectively disenfranchised by the actions of their leaders.
There are very many of us with that length of time in the industry that agree with much of what you say and propose, but choose to present our views in a different manner free from the noise of Smiths personal agenda.
And this is the really scary bit;
It is absurd to say that Smith had a political use for AOPA. What on Earth is that supposed to mean?
He is already the most popular man in Australia, and polls for President put him way ahead. He could be a Senator any time he wished.
He will be neither; he knows well enough that the body politic will demand more than dilettante dabbling and besides there is the real risk that you may have to actually know of which you speak and the very high risk that you will be so judged at the ballot box.
Commitment means you have to stay and fight, even if you reckon your opponents are real d!ckheads because they can’t see the “obvious” rightness of your cause.
You can’t hit and run when it gets hot or blame everybody else for your failure.
The Canberra Press Gallery is an entirely different animal to those that report on school fetes and populist ‘gee whiz’ pap.
It’s ever so much easier to be a “could have”, than “has been”.
I commend to you Paul Sheehan’s “Amongst the Barbarians” for an exquisite explication of the surgical ruthlessness and perspicacity of the Australian voter and what they will and will not, up with put.
And I guess when we need someone to solve the present world agony or the peculiar and unique technical problems we have with our airspace we should simply elect the most “popular” person we can find and let him/her at it. And when he/she is finished with that little problem, why there’s, cancer, world famine or any number of things to keep em busy.
Smith gives of his time and effort to achieve a simpler and cheaper aviation scene for Australia. His opponents are those who stand to lose by this.
Any way you choose to look at it Mr Smith has much for which to answer and that includes the present condition of AOPA.
The problem for the Smiths of this world is that you are either for or against.
I suspect from the feedback on the imbroglio surrounding the NAS Implementation project that there are many who feel that the most constructive contribution Smith can now make to it is to go away, period.
AOPA may get a much more reasonable hearing and better treatment from CASA if it could be seen as not being in the thrall of the past leadership.
I cannot imagine any sensible reason not to be a member.
So here is the test, I have tonight, sent off my money and details to regain membership of AOPA.
Now I can be offside with every body equally, it’s a wonderful thing this democracy.
Can’t be fairer than that.
BTW if you happen to be in LRE this weekend, I’d be happy to buy you a beverage and we can have a go at getting a little closer on this thing. There is much to be done.
And hey, I’m now a voter so you’ll have to listen.
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Hey gaunty, oh personality challenged one.
Good to see you are a voter, I take it AOPA member
Now if you and the others want more charter, flying school representation, then join and vote it in. I don't much like the AOPA VP so well reported here, or his mate from Bankstown, or the 20 watt follower from the deep north.
But I have only one vote.
How about some of the WA members so disenchanted by the actions of another 'other opinion' challenged ex AOPA VP get a candidate up and vote him/her in.
A certain POM CFI springs to mind, or perhaps another 'Grumman Tiger' person from the school next door :P Even an ex Phantom jock with a funny accent, who knows
Get in and change things.
Chuck
Good to see you are a voter, I take it AOPA member
Now if you and the others want more charter, flying school representation, then join and vote it in. I don't much like the AOPA VP so well reported here, or his mate from Bankstown, or the 20 watt follower from the deep north.
But I have only one vote.
How about some of the WA members so disenchanted by the actions of another 'other opinion' challenged ex AOPA VP get a candidate up and vote him/her in.
A certain POM CFI springs to mind, or perhaps another 'Grumman Tiger' person from the school next door :P Even an ex Phantom jock with a funny accent, who knows
Get in and change things.
Chuck
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Ulm;
I feel it's kind of a chicken and egg situation.
AOPA needs members desperately or at the very least, stop the number slide. Otherwise future AOPA GM's will be held in a Bankstown Cafe.
Fresh new students are an great source of new members for AOPA, new ideas, new funding.....New students are to found at flying schools all around the country. New students are impressionable & enthusiastic for their new interest and generally follow Instructor/Flying school direction/ideas/opinions.
Win the support of the schools & charter companies and watch the new members sign up in droves. At the very least, send free copies of magazines to schools for the coffee table/lunch room, along with a display stand of blank membership forms.
Newsagent distribution of the magazine couldn't hurt either (if there already is newsagent distribution, I have yet to see any copies!). In the USA, AOPA magazine is on display at almost all airport newstands.
AOPA needs to make the move and represent ALL of G.A.
Face it, there HAS to be a reason that member numbers are down.
It's not a case of join up and change the system. If political parties had the same attitude, they would never see office again.
AOPA needs to win it's support.
I feel it's kind of a chicken and egg situation.
AOPA needs members desperately or at the very least, stop the number slide. Otherwise future AOPA GM's will be held in a Bankstown Cafe.
Fresh new students are an great source of new members for AOPA, new ideas, new funding.....New students are to found at flying schools all around the country. New students are impressionable & enthusiastic for their new interest and generally follow Instructor/Flying school direction/ideas/opinions.
Win the support of the schools & charter companies and watch the new members sign up in droves. At the very least, send free copies of magazines to schools for the coffee table/lunch room, along with a display stand of blank membership forms.
Newsagent distribution of the magazine couldn't hurt either (if there already is newsagent distribution, I have yet to see any copies!). In the USA, AOPA magazine is on display at almost all airport newstands.
AOPA needs to make the move and represent ALL of G.A.
Face it, there HAS to be a reason that member numbers are down.
It's not a case of join up and change the system. If political parties had the same attitude, they would never see office again.
AOPA needs to win it's support.
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RFG
Ah yes, but AOPA seems somewhat fiscally challenged at the moment, and what you propose would cost money.
I am a member of two 'professional' organisations. Each costs me over $400 a year. How much would you pay to be a 'professional affilliate' of AOPA???
If your answer is 'the same as an ordinary member, but I still want ...... extra' then forget it.
If your answer is, 'Oh I'd pay $650 a year if they looked after AOC issues, and gave me table mags, and ran TV ads' then perhaps you are talking.
Have you seen the AOPA US TV ad, it is great. But it takes money. So, how many would pay in excess of $500 a year for that service???
I wonder.
Chuck
Ah yes, but AOPA seems somewhat fiscally challenged at the moment, and what you propose would cost money.
I am a member of two 'professional' organisations. Each costs me over $400 a year. How much would you pay to be a 'professional affilliate' of AOPA???
If your answer is 'the same as an ordinary member, but I still want ...... extra' then forget it.
If your answer is, 'Oh I'd pay $650 a year if they looked after AOC issues, and gave me table mags, and ran TV ads' then perhaps you are talking.
Have you seen the AOPA US TV ad, it is great. But it takes money. So, how many would pay in excess of $500 a year for that service???
I wonder.
Chuck
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ulm
moi "personality challenged"?
If I have a problem with personalities, it is with those "personalities" who masquerade or are paraded as "experts" here to "save us" with narrow agendas.
Rich Fine Green
Puts his finger right on it
They need to work out just who they actually represent against what they are currently presenting.
I get the feeling that they would like the Minister and public to think they represent "aviation" in Oz period.
They may now do so, de facto, because of the way their original constituency was so debased by the opportunists that they left in droves.
Ignoring the casuallties and those killed in action and starting afresh with young new cannon fodder, viz the
as an electoral base has already been tried/corrupted with spectacularly negative results.
Blind Freddy can lead a bunch of kids over a cliff, cheering as they go.
Certainly they need to be encouraged to be members and participate.
But you need to re engage with those former members with experience and "history" and who were disenfranchised, to rebuild the legitimate base that once existed.
Patiently and surely without histrionics and "personalities" in front or behind.
moi "personality challenged"?
If I have a problem with personalities, it is with those "personalities" who masquerade or are paraded as "experts" here to "save us" with narrow agendas.
Rich Fine Green
Puts his finger right on it
AOPA needs to make the move and represent ALL of G.A.
I get the feeling that they would like the Minister and public to think they represent "aviation" in Oz period.
They may now do so, de facto, because of the way their original constituency was so debased by the opportunists that they left in droves.
Ignoring the casuallties and those killed in action and starting afresh with young new cannon fodder, viz the
New students are impressionable & enthusiastic for their new interest and generally follow Instructor/Flying school direction/ideas/opinions
Blind Freddy can lead a bunch of kids over a cliff, cheering as they go.
Certainly they need to be encouraged to be members and participate.
But you need to re engage with those former members with experience and "history" and who were disenfranchised, to rebuild the legitimate base that once existed.
Patiently and surely without histrionics and "personalities" in front or behind.
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Ulm;
Yes, I would.
and so would almost all operators.
Look at it this way. Most operators are already spending $5,000+ on yellow pages ads (even more in Sydney & Melb!).
For $500+ dollars or even more - I would. To have an organisation that ran Ad's, had a lobby that represented close to 100% of GA and provided a few table mags - thumbs up!.
Today's AOPA does none of that so $=0.
If the above fantasy became reality, a professional organisation could also get for their $$ something along the lines of;
* Employees become members of AOPA as part of the professional membership (no extra magazines of course). Fees can be weighted for organisation size - say up to 10 employees $500.
The young Instructors & Charter pilots (as well as the grizzled operators) are at the coal-face. The flow on from Instructors & Charter pilots being members as part of their employment will be lots and lots of new, well funded, full-fare paying, impressionable student pilot members.
Some may see expansion of AOPA to seriously include all parts of GA as too radical or an erosion of power or some may just want AOPA to represent just PPL's and private flying. OK, so be it.
However, the fact remains, AOPA as it stands today is in trouble - with no new members or funding on the horizon.
Yes, I would.
and so would almost all operators.
Look at it this way. Most operators are already spending $5,000+ on yellow pages ads (even more in Sydney & Melb!).
For $500+ dollars or even more - I would. To have an organisation that ran Ad's, had a lobby that represented close to 100% of GA and provided a few table mags - thumbs up!.
Today's AOPA does none of that so $=0.
If the above fantasy became reality, a professional organisation could also get for their $$ something along the lines of;
* Employees become members of AOPA as part of the professional membership (no extra magazines of course). Fees can be weighted for organisation size - say up to 10 employees $500.
The young Instructors & Charter pilots (as well as the grizzled operators) are at the coal-face. The flow on from Instructors & Charter pilots being members as part of their employment will be lots and lots of new, well funded, full-fare paying, impressionable student pilot members.
Some may see expansion of AOPA to seriously include all parts of GA as too radical or an erosion of power or some may just want AOPA to represent just PPL's and private flying. OK, so be it.
However, the fact remains, AOPA as it stands today is in trouble - with no new members or funding on the horizon.
Last edited by Rich-Fine-Green; 12th Nov 2002 at 02:14.
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Rich-Fine-Green.
OK, at the risk of being shot at cos I don't agree with every opinion expressed here or i don't want to look after the interests of non-members, (flak jacket ON!!!)
Call Chris McKeown. He wants to set up just such an organisation. He wants to support AOC holders with ads, representation and advice. The cost will be at least $500, but we would be able to get TV ads etc if we had enough members.
We are also looking at a paper similar to one called Dive Log (ask for one at a dive shop). An industry journal free to students/customers/prospective customers and about $5 at the newsagent.
Chris has also negotiated a really good deal for industry which we will announce soon.
If you want his number send me an e-mail at
[email protected]
AK
OK, at the risk of being shot at cos I don't agree with every opinion expressed here or i don't want to look after the interests of non-members, (flak jacket ON!!!)
Call Chris McKeown. He wants to set up just such an organisation. He wants to support AOC holders with ads, representation and advice. The cost will be at least $500, but we would be able to get TV ads etc if we had enough members.
We are also looking at a paper similar to one called Dive Log (ask for one at a dive shop). An industry journal free to students/customers/prospective customers and about $5 at the newsagent.
Chris has also negotiated a really good deal for industry which we will announce soon.
If you want his number send me an e-mail at
[email protected]
AK
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Australia
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aopa elections
Please ?
AIRCRAFT: any machine capable of flying by means of boyancy or aerodynamic forces such as glider, helicopter or aeroplane.
OWNERS: a person who owns; legal possessor. (plu).
PILOT's: a person who is qualified to operate an aircraft or spacecraft in flight. (plu).
ASSOCIATION: a group of persons having a comman interest or purpose or interest.
WHITE ANT see termite: social insect of the order Isoptera, feed on wood and cause damage. also used to describe a social order determined to "white ant" a project or cause damage of a nature whereby the structure or organisation is rendered useless and destroyed.
I fail to see how "professional pilot's" somehow find AOPA of no significance to them. Been flying for more than 37 years and the professionalism I see and hear on a day to day basis makes me shudder.
A FACT; the AOPA website is not annonomous and you can actually get into trouble for saying what is on your mind. Perhaps our Democrat Snarek is using pprune as a forum denied him in his own organisation. Perhaps Woomera should give dunnunder and godzone another sub site for the AOPA members and the whiteants. would make interesting reading and keep our moderator busy seeing as he has no AOPA magazine to read.
Andrew; PHILOSOPHY: the beginning of philosophy is the recognition of the conflict between opinions. (Epictetus).
Civil disobedience is what we need !!!!!
AIRCRAFT: any machine capable of flying by means of boyancy or aerodynamic forces such as glider, helicopter or aeroplane.
OWNERS: a person who owns; legal possessor. (plu).
PILOT's: a person who is qualified to operate an aircraft or spacecraft in flight. (plu).
ASSOCIATION: a group of persons having a comman interest or purpose or interest.
WHITE ANT see termite: social insect of the order Isoptera, feed on wood and cause damage. also used to describe a social order determined to "white ant" a project or cause damage of a nature whereby the structure or organisation is rendered useless and destroyed.
I fail to see how "professional pilot's" somehow find AOPA of no significance to them. Been flying for more than 37 years and the professionalism I see and hear on a day to day basis makes me shudder.
A FACT; the AOPA website is not annonomous and you can actually get into trouble for saying what is on your mind. Perhaps our Democrat Snarek is using pprune as a forum denied him in his own organisation. Perhaps Woomera should give dunnunder and godzone another sub site for the AOPA members and the whiteants. would make interesting reading and keep our moderator busy seeing as he has no AOPA magazine to read.
Andrew; PHILOSOPHY: the beginning of philosophy is the recognition of the conflict between opinions. (Epictetus).
Civil disobedience is what we need !!!!!
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Fair-Enough,
Thanks Snarek, I already have his details - from the front of my AOPA magazine, yes I'm a member (I think I already mentioned that).
I will invest in a phone call and see what he has to say.
Anyone else interested email snarek.
Then again, despite restricted distribution of the AOPA magazine and secret forums (members only) on the AOPA web-site. The AOPA contact details of Chris McKeown are not a state secret.
From page 4 of Nov AOPA as left in my company's coffee room and already dog-eared and pages stuck together (from Coffee OK dammit!);
AOPA HQ YSBK: 02-97919099
AOPA VP Chris McKeown: 02-62575255
In fairness, I suggest operators reading this topic call the above and post further comments as you see fit.
Thanks Snarek, I already have his details - from the front of my AOPA magazine, yes I'm a member (I think I already mentioned that).
I will invest in a phone call and see what he has to say.
Anyone else interested email snarek.
Then again, despite restricted distribution of the AOPA magazine and secret forums (members only) on the AOPA web-site. The AOPA contact details of Chris McKeown are not a state secret.
From page 4 of Nov AOPA as left in my company's coffee room and already dog-eared and pages stuck together (from Coffee OK dammit!);
AOPA HQ YSBK: 02-97919099
AOPA VP Chris McKeown: 02-62575255
In fairness, I suggest operators reading this topic call the above and post further comments as you see fit.
AOPA Needs Our Help!!! Part 2
Understand that during a phone hook up on Friday night by the Board a spill was rejected by the two members mentioned above. These two must go and not be involved with the management ever again.
I hear there was also talk of a $100 levy on all members. Even as a long time member I would not contribute until there was a complete spill and there was a management team in place that gave me confidence that I would not be wasting my money. There are many members that would contribute a significantly if the likes of Patroni was in control. The past 8 years of Smith, Munro and Hamilton have seen the membership drop from over 10k to around 4k. Only the return of strong and responsible leadership will see any chance of a membership rise.
An EGM must be called without delay.
Tough measures must be put in place by Monday, even if it means suspending the magazine. If an Administrator is called in we all know where any money left goes then!
The Board have a responsibility to inform the members and the web page or an email should be used as a matter of urgency.
I hear there was also talk of a $100 levy on all members. Even as a long time member I would not contribute until there was a complete spill and there was a management team in place that gave me confidence that I would not be wasting my money. There are many members that would contribute a significantly if the likes of Patroni was in control. The past 8 years of Smith, Munro and Hamilton have seen the membership drop from over 10k to around 4k. Only the return of strong and responsible leadership will see any chance of a membership rise.
An EGM must be called without delay.
Tough measures must be put in place by Monday, even if it means suspending the magazine. If an Administrator is called in we all know where any money left goes then!
The Board have a responsibility to inform the members and the web page or an email should be used as a matter of urgency.
Last edited by Woomera; 26th Feb 2003 at 21:22.