'89 Popularity
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'89 Popularity
Interesting to note, that the number of hits on Meloz and '89 scored 13714 hits, and the next highest was the Hamilton Island accident was not much more than half at 7800 odd.
Also interesting to note that, whilst the opinions of those directly involved are obviously pretty polarised, posts from those not involved (or at least CLAIMING not to be involved!) were pretty evenly divided, and most had a "Get over it guys" kinda ring to them.
If the actions of the post '89 pilots were so totally reprehensible as the pre '89 would make out, wouldn't you expect more general condemnation from the "Unbiased" observers?
Of course the general response from TTT, Kap M, Amos etc. was basically "If you don't agree with me you don't know what you're talking about!!", and "If you weren’t there, you're opinion is irrelevant!!" (Of course, dissenting opinions from those who WERE there were dismissed as vehemently).Bit like discussing religion with a rabid fundamentalist.... "There is only one truth..MINE!!!"
I just LOVED Kap Ms line..."The scabs earned 260-285 thousand, and from that I'm not budging!!!"
In other words "This is my truth, and no amount of evidence to the contrary will shake it!!!"
So it all got hashed over again, the wounds stay open, no-one is persuaded either way.....
I think I'll go play Internet cards; it's probably a more productive pass time!!
If the actions of the post '89 pilots were so totally reprehensible as the pre '89 would make out, wouldn't you expect more general condemnation from the "Unbiased" observers?
Of course the general response from TTT, Kap M, Amos etc. was basically "If you don't agree with me you don't know what you're talking about!!", and "If you weren’t there, you're opinion is irrelevant!!" (Of course, dissenting opinions from those who WERE there were dismissed as vehemently).Bit like discussing religion with a rabid fundamentalist.... "There is only one truth..MINE!!!"
I just LOVED Kap Ms line..."The scabs earned 260-285 thousand, and from that I'm not budging!!!"
In other words "This is my truth, and no amount of evidence to the contrary will shake it!!!"
So it all got hashed over again, the wounds stay open, no-one is persuaded either way.....
I think I'll go play Internet cards; it's probably a more productive pass time!!
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TTT,
Your deep analytical mind did not look sufficiently far.
Sure, Meloz had 13714 hits, and the HM accident 7814, but the Meloz thread has been running for 15+ days, and the HM accident for only 5+ days, so one would have to conclude that there has been more interest in the accident thread. Of course, that interest may not be sustained for 15 days, so Meloz may yet come out in front. But for interest over the past 5 days, the accident is well in front. In fact, statistically, it has had about 60% more interest!
Interest based on number of posts is very close, however, with a slightly greater number on the 89 thread. 166 for '89, and 51 for the accident in a third of the time.
There is one thing that can be guaranteed, however, and that is that the HM accident will not still be under serious analysis by expat pilots in another 13+ years.
Wizofoz,
One would have to say with the attitude of KM, he would be a dangerous man to have up front. Not willing to evaluate factual information that is in conflict with what he previously believed, and accept it when validated, is not a good quality for a pilot.
I know, I know, you can NEVER believe a scab. But, non scabs, those who stood firm in the face of great adversity and were led to the slaughter by the AFAP, and remain friends even though their paths in life have taken different directions, have posted here confirming AN pay rates post 89. These people, solid citizens, the salt of the earth, because they stood firm, are people of substance and are to be believed. They are among your number, but not abusive. They accept they were deceived by the AFAP, don't like it but accept it, and are getting on with life.
Not being receptive to information would be like a flt att coming in and saying, 'Captain, the right engine is on fire,' and him saying 'The instruments don't show it, and I don't hear a fire bell. Get me another coffee, dear, and don't involve yourself in mens' business.'
Now before you guys jump in and attempt crucifixion, I wouldn't suggest firing the bottle either, but I would suggest most urgent further investigation to establish the exact position.
The total number of views of the Meloz site would be easily explained. The likes of TTT, Amos with his mythical can of powder, and several others, would be there a hundred times a day looking for someone else who contradicted their 'factual' version of events so they could heap more abuse on the poor soul. I also suggest that the bulk of the posts would be from a small number of the so-called 89ers. I thought they were a baseball or basketball team in the US; or are they 49ers; or are the 49ers the CX guys who were sacked?
It's all getting to be too much. I may get stuck into the cards as well.
Your deep analytical mind did not look sufficiently far.
Sure, Meloz had 13714 hits, and the HM accident 7814, but the Meloz thread has been running for 15+ days, and the HM accident for only 5+ days, so one would have to conclude that there has been more interest in the accident thread. Of course, that interest may not be sustained for 15 days, so Meloz may yet come out in front. But for interest over the past 5 days, the accident is well in front. In fact, statistically, it has had about 60% more interest!
Interest based on number of posts is very close, however, with a slightly greater number on the 89 thread. 166 for '89, and 51 for the accident in a third of the time.
There is one thing that can be guaranteed, however, and that is that the HM accident will not still be under serious analysis by expat pilots in another 13+ years.
Wizofoz,
One would have to say with the attitude of KM, he would be a dangerous man to have up front. Not willing to evaluate factual information that is in conflict with what he previously believed, and accept it when validated, is not a good quality for a pilot.
I know, I know, you can NEVER believe a scab. But, non scabs, those who stood firm in the face of great adversity and were led to the slaughter by the AFAP, and remain friends even though their paths in life have taken different directions, have posted here confirming AN pay rates post 89. These people, solid citizens, the salt of the earth, because they stood firm, are people of substance and are to be believed. They are among your number, but not abusive. They accept they were deceived by the AFAP, don't like it but accept it, and are getting on with life.
Not being receptive to information would be like a flt att coming in and saying, 'Captain, the right engine is on fire,' and him saying 'The instruments don't show it, and I don't hear a fire bell. Get me another coffee, dear, and don't involve yourself in mens' business.'
Now before you guys jump in and attempt crucifixion, I wouldn't suggest firing the bottle either, but I would suggest most urgent further investigation to establish the exact position.
The total number of views of the Meloz site would be easily explained. The likes of TTT, Amos with his mythical can of powder, and several others, would be there a hundred times a day looking for someone else who contradicted their 'factual' version of events so they could heap more abuse on the poor soul. I also suggest that the bulk of the posts would be from a small number of the so-called 89ers. I thought they were a baseball or basketball team in the US; or are they 49ers; or are the 49ers the CX guys who were sacked?
It's all getting to be too much. I may get stuck into the cards as well.
Last edited by CitizenXX; 2nd Oct 2002 at 22:49.
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CitizenXXXXXX
The only deception by the AFAP exists in your defensive imagination.
And pleased to see you accept your position on the planet as that of a scab.
The only deception by the AFAP exists in your defensive imagination.
And pleased to see you accept your position on the planet as that of a scab.
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Well TTT, the AFAP aren't doing too well with their major clients at the moment. That being the pilot groups of Virgin Blue and Eastern Australia Airlines.
They need to move into the modern era and listen to their customers (yes, customers) wants and needs. Otherwise they are doomed to the scrap heap. The ALAEA (Engineers) is now finding this out with many of it's long-term members choosing more effective representation.
CitizenXX: You have a refreshing and more realistic insight of the general perception of TODAY
They need to move into the modern era and listen to their customers (yes, customers) wants and needs. Otherwise they are doomed to the scrap heap. The ALAEA (Engineers) is now finding this out with many of it's long-term members choosing more effective representation.
CitizenXX: You have a refreshing and more realistic insight of the general perception of TODAY
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Hugh,
I do receive quite a bit of complimentary mail via the private message service, and thank you for yours here.
You're quite right about the AFAP and major customers. It seems to me that they dropped the ball in early 89, and have been on the back foot ever since. One would have to say that if they're representing VB and the best they can do is half what the opposition is paying, then they're not doing their job.
I know, they're a low cost airline - BUT, they are not low fares. Look at the websites daily, and it's touch and go who is the most expensive on any day - sometimes it's QF, and sometimes it's VB. So, they screw their employees on incomes on the pretense that they are doing it to offer lower fares, but in fact, their fares are no lower than the opposition who pay double the salaries. Who wins here? Nobody but Branson and Godfrey!
It's a con that the AFAP hasn't managed to see through yet, and I wonder if they ever will.
What I say about TTT obviously is true and hits a raw nerve with him. Note his contribution above. I posted, pointing out the statistics involved with his initial post on 89 vs accident. Nothing inflammatory, defamatory, or even suggesting he was a ********, but back he comes full of venom with the same old stuff. You are a scab; but this time he didn't say that Hawke and Abeles are/were criminals, and that's a huge change.
No mention is made of the guts of the post, and that was a comparison between numbers of posts for different threads. Interesting insight into the mind of TTT though.
I do receive quite a bit of complimentary mail via the private message service, and thank you for yours here.
You're quite right about the AFAP and major customers. It seems to me that they dropped the ball in early 89, and have been on the back foot ever since. One would have to say that if they're representing VB and the best they can do is half what the opposition is paying, then they're not doing their job.
I know, they're a low cost airline - BUT, they are not low fares. Look at the websites daily, and it's touch and go who is the most expensive on any day - sometimes it's QF, and sometimes it's VB. So, they screw their employees on incomes on the pretense that they are doing it to offer lower fares, but in fact, their fares are no lower than the opposition who pay double the salaries. Who wins here? Nobody but Branson and Godfrey!
It's a con that the AFAP hasn't managed to see through yet, and I wonder if they ever will.
What I say about TTT obviously is true and hits a raw nerve with him. Note his contribution above. I posted, pointing out the statistics involved with his initial post on 89 vs accident. Nothing inflammatory, defamatory, or even suggesting he was a ********, but back he comes full of venom with the same old stuff. You are a scab; but this time he didn't say that Hawke and Abeles are/were criminals, and that's a huge change.
No mention is made of the guts of the post, and that was a comparison between numbers of posts for different threads. Interesting insight into the mind of TTT though.
Last edited by CitizenXX; 3rd Oct 2002 at 23:37.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
The weather on the Gold Coast is actually quite enjoyable!
Amazing the people one runs into in Surfers'....those that suddenly duck into the nearest opening...and the others who invite you back for a bbq at their ranchSee ya!
BTW, how's the SQ application going, CIX?
p.s. Don't bother replying because (a) I already know the answer
and (b) I don't plan on turning my computer on again any time soon!
Amazing the people one runs into in Surfers'....those that suddenly duck into the nearest opening...and the others who invite you back for a bbq at their ranchSee ya!
BTW, how's the SQ application going, CIX?
p.s. Don't bother replying because (a) I already know the answer
and (b) I don't plan on turning my computer on again any time soon!
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CitizenXXXXXXX - the only raw nerve is my mirth, when I note that only 89er's are the abusive posters. So say you and other scabs.
One of the most fascinating things about you and your colleagues, is that you all went along with the AFAP leadership from at least February 1989, even resigned, and suddenly have been hit with the holy blinding light that, according to you, the AFAP was all bad.
Even the three year old down the road laughs about that one.
One of the most fascinating things about you and your colleagues, is that you all went along with the AFAP leadership from at least February 1989, even resigned, and suddenly have been hit with the holy blinding light that, according to you, the AFAP was all bad.
Even the three year old down the road laughs about that one.
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The avid union supporters in general on the Pprune are usually the first ones with the name calling when opposing viewpoints are posted by those whose opinions are different....scab...certainly be used improperly both here, and on Fragrant harbour in regards to the recruitment ban....since scab is an improper term in both situations....so keep on with the name calling, and bitterness, and find your mates on the beach, go to your barbies and whine together...I would duck into a corner or dunny if I saw the likes of your lot trapseing down the beach as well.....don't want to spoil a perfectly good day at the beach listening to whining and moaning about something that happened 13 years ago...'bout now right?
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I presume that CIX is addressing me since I am th eonly one who has mentioned SQ applications here.
Kap M is a man of many hats. It seems he has a direct line to SQ Flt Dept. He knows the answer on my start date and base. Curious, since I haven't yet been advised. I do know that I'm acceptable though, because I have been accepted.
Perhaps you could lose the Americanism next time round Kap M. 'Any time soon' is the same as 'in the near future.'
Kap M is a man of many hats. It seems he has a direct line to SQ Flt Dept. He knows the answer on my start date and base. Curious, since I haven't yet been advised. I do know that I'm acceptable though, because I have been accepted.
Perhaps you could lose the Americanism next time round Kap M. 'Any time soon' is the same as 'in the near future.'
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CitizenX,
If you had not noticed KM is a legend in his own mind. He thinks his mates in SQ know all the good gos but unfortunately many are just goading him to see just how much trash he can spread and he still has not worked it out.. Look at the majority of his predictions. Nearly all make believe stuff. As I said "A Legend In His Own Mind"
If you had not noticed KM is a legend in his own mind. He thinks his mates in SQ know all the good gos but unfortunately many are just goading him to see just how much trash he can spread and he still has not worked it out.. Look at the majority of his predictions. Nearly all make believe stuff. As I said "A Legend In His Own Mind"
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Carn't help it.
I'm sitting here visualising tool time two bailing up some three year old,
Now listen hear........dispute....bla bla bla.....scabs......bla bla bla......AFAP......SCABS.......BLA BLA BLA.
So tool time was his laugh one of sincerity,or do you think he was taking the p!ss out of you.
I'm sitting here visualising tool time two bailing up some three year old,
Now listen hear........dispute....bla bla bla.....scabs......bla bla bla......AFAP......SCABS.......BLA BLA BLA.
So tool time was his laugh one of sincerity,or do you think he was taking the p!ss out of you.
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Yes, Pole Vaulter, KM makes an assumption on my identity, and he is wrong. He's guessing, and whether he has 'friends' in SQ or not is irrelevant. I'll reveal why he's wrong in a future post.
Thumbs Up & Water Ops, Good stuff!! Most amusing.
Thumbs Up & Water Ops, Good stuff!! Most amusing.
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Yes.
Yet another naive attempt to establish my identity - if I had sufficient to invest wisely, then it would put a certain vintage on me, wouldn't it? Or would it??
Ironbutt,
You just realized that??
Yet another naive attempt to establish my identity - if I had sufficient to invest wisely, then it would put a certain vintage on me, wouldn't it? Or would it??
Ironbutt,
You just realized that??
Last edited by CitizenXX; 10th Oct 2002 at 00:06.
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I dont say much about 89 here anymore as Im convinced the Great Australian Unwashed have such short memorys theyll repeat history over and over and over again without ever learning a damn thing, wether its to do with aviation, industrial relations, politics, or socialism. In Oz aviation the proof is in the "activitys" of the last 13 years, most of which results wouldve been totaly avoidable if the lessons of 89 hadve been learnt.