Job Prospects - NT
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Job Prospects - NT
G'day,
Are the job prospects for a somewhat fresh CPL truly that stacked against us? Is it really as bad as some people on here and other forums suggest?
There seem to be a lot of commentary that moving up to Darwin is a waste as you'll be waiting months and months to even be looked at.
Just seems concerning for new guys to even get a start, life's unfair and I get that, world doesn't owe any newbie a job. But is it even feasible to get a start? I'm fortunate even to have a bit more TT than the fresh CPL, adding MEIR and I'll be knocking on 450 hours
Looking forward to hearing people's thoughts
Cheers,
MRR
Are the job prospects for a somewhat fresh CPL truly that stacked against us? Is it really as bad as some people on here and other forums suggest?
There seem to be a lot of commentary that moving up to Darwin is a waste as you'll be waiting months and months to even be looked at.
Just seems concerning for new guys to even get a start, life's unfair and I get that, world doesn't owe any newbie a job. But is it even feasible to get a start? I'm fortunate even to have a bit more TT than the fresh CPL, adding MEIR and I'll be knocking on 450 hours
Looking forward to hearing people's thoughts
Cheers,
MRR
Last edited by MoreRightRudder_; 26th May 2024 at 23:30.
Experience definitely makes a difference up there, but an Instructor Rating would help more. That could see you teaching someplace as a primary job doing charter/scenics on the side?
People skills are critical in the NT - and not something the average big-city airline rookie is generally good at.
People skills are critical in the NT - and not something the average big-city airline rookie is generally good at.
In classic PPRuNe style, I’ll go opposite of what the previous said…
an instructor rating up north for an entry level job is almost useless. Look up how many flying schools are in Broome, kunners, Darwin, cairns. I don’t know the answer , but it wouldn’t be more than 2/3 (total).
You’d be better off focusing on what charter companies want / need. Bit of 200 series time. Bus licence. First aid certificate. DG certificate. Some sort of tourism related job experience.
With your hours, you’d be in a much better position to land a gig than a 150-200 hr cpl.
(all in my opinion, which as you can see, varies from person to person).
an instructor rating up north for an entry level job is almost useless. Look up how many flying schools are in Broome, kunners, Darwin, cairns. I don’t know the answer , but it wouldn’t be more than 2/3 (total).
You’d be better off focusing on what charter companies want / need. Bit of 200 series time. Bus licence. First aid certificate. DG certificate. Some sort of tourism related job experience.
With your hours, you’d be in a much better position to land a gig than a 150-200 hr cpl.
(all in my opinion, which as you can see, varies from person to person).
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G'day,
Are the job prospects for a somewhat fresh CPL truly that stacked against us? Is it really as bad as some people on here and other forums suggest?
There seem to be a lot of commentary that moving up to Darwin is a waste as you'll be waiting months and months to even be looked at.
Just seems concerning for new guys to even get a start, life's unfair and I get that, world doesn't owe any newbie a job. But is it even feasible to get a start? I'm fortunate even to have a bit more TT than the fresh CPL, adding MEIR and I'll be knocking on 450 hours
Looking forward to hearing people's thoughts
Cheers,
MRR
Are the job prospects for a somewhat fresh CPL truly that stacked against us? Is it really as bad as some people on here and other forums suggest?
There seem to be a lot of commentary that moving up to Darwin is a waste as you'll be waiting months and months to even be looked at.
Just seems concerning for new guys to even get a start, life's unfair and I get that, world doesn't owe any newbie a job. But is it even feasible to get a start? I'm fortunate even to have a bit more TT than the fresh CPL, adding MEIR and I'll be knocking on 450 hours
Looking forward to hearing people's thoughts
Cheers,
MRR
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Instructor rating is useless up north.
Depends what you use it for.. If you use it to convince prospective employers that you're actually interested in other people (and you're not just the typical high-and-mighty that head up there) then, coupled with a few other brownie points, it might just (even if only just!) stop your CV going immediately into the trash with all of the others.
Or it might get you a job behind the bar of the local pub.
Or it might get you a job behind the bar of the local pub.
How many hours of commercial PIC time do you have flying in the NT, PiperCameron?
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He’s obviously got an instructor rating and is trying to make himself feel better about wasting his money on it.
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Getting your first job in GA is pure luck. If your face fits, you will get a quick start, if it doesn’t you’ll get despondent watching others turn up and walk straight into that job you waited 6 months for just because their face fits.
Consider also looking overseas - PNG, Irian Jaya etc.
Consider also looking overseas - PNG, Irian Jaya etc.
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With those hours I can't imagine you'd have too much trouble getting in with one of the charter operators. I got hired up here with half that and no MEIR, so it can definitely be done.
Remember that being able to fly is only a small part of getting the job; every applicant can fly a plane. You need the CP to feel comfortable that you're going to fit in well with the existing team, so you need good interpersonal skills and a good attitude.
Remember that being able to fly is only a small part of getting the job; every applicant can fly a plane. You need the CP to feel comfortable that you're going to fit in well with the existing team, so you need good interpersonal skills and a good attitude.
In classic PPRuNe style, I’ll go opposite of what the previous said…
an instructor rating up north for an entry level job is almost useless. Look up how many flying schools are in Broome, kunners, Darwin, cairns. I don’t know the answer , but it wouldn’t be more than 2/3 (total).
You’d be better off focusing on what charter companies want / need. Bit of 200 series time. Bus licence. First aid certificate. DG certificate. Some sort of tourism related job experience.
With your hours, you’d be in a much better position to land a gig than a 150-200 hr cpl.
(all in my opinion, which as you can see, varies from person to person).
an instructor rating up north for an entry level job is almost useless. Look up how many flying schools are in Broome, kunners, Darwin, cairns. I don’t know the answer , but it wouldn’t be more than 2/3 (total).
You’d be better off focusing on what charter companies want / need. Bit of 200 series time. Bus licence. First aid certificate. DG certificate. Some sort of tourism related job experience.
With your hours, you’d be in a much better position to land a gig than a 150-200 hr cpl.
(all in my opinion, which as you can see, varies from person to person).
I think your best bet is to have a few more hours under your belt than the bare CPL and learn how to network and be a good drinking buddy down the pub, and show a willingness to listen, learn and help with other things around the place. That in no way means working for free, but it also means you don't want to create messes for others to clean up.
Depends what you use it for.. If you use it to convince prospective employers that you're actually interested in other people (and you're not just the typical high-and-mighty that head up there) then, coupled with a few other brownie points, it might just (even if only just!) stop your CV going immediately into the trash with all of the others.
Or it might get you a job behind the bar of the local pub.
Or it might get you a job behind the bar of the local pub.
If you don't want your CV to go in the bin then have plenty of command time in relevant types. All the ratings are worthless without that.
There are way too many threads on this topic all the way back to when this forum first started. But I'll add my thoughts to the pile yet again because if one hopeful sees it and benefits then that's a positive.
The numbers are: roughly around 1300 CPLs issued each year for the past decade.
Phone calls - many will get phone screens, depending on the company, you might even get a call if you emailed in from a different state.
In person interviews - a handful to a dozen - or in some cases many dozen applicants interviewed in person for 1-3 positions.
Start date: A few months to a year of ground duties before flying
Your game: needs to be top notch. How far away from land can you fly in a single engine on a part 135 flight? What's load factor? What's best angle of climb speed in xx frame in our fleet?
You need to be able to have a laugh, get on well with anyone, hold a conversation and have a skill or two outside of aviation. The old joke of "can fly a plane but can't use the washing machine" is not a state of preparedness you want to be going up north with.
Think outside the box: apply everywhere other than the top end as well. Call up people who might need a pilot. Don't be afraid to sound/look silly.
Outside of the box is where I built my hours to ~500, then got a start straight away in the top end. If you can manage to find something to get you to 500, you're about 500km ahead of the other newbies in the top end.
Here's one for ya: join the Australian Rural and Remote Jobs page on Facebook, have a look at the hot backpackers posting, then make a post and put yourself out there as a young pilot willing to work as a station hand and fly the plane if they have one.
There are TOO MANY resumes that come across the desks of owners/chiefs up here that look THE EXACT SAME. No or minimal work history. A CPL, maybe with a TWU, aeros or one or two interesting frames, a sentence about flying in remote areas during their CPL hour building on the email, awful references - sometimes only two references, the first a seemingly completely random person labelled something ambiguous like 'family friend' and another ambiguously related person who is a captain at Qantas etc.
1. Work a job or two. Bounce around. Get on the tools - get on a 2 stroke for a landscaping company, mix paint and roll it on the side of boats, pressure wash trucks, get a HR and run around day couriering - get on your feet and make yourself practical. Learn about yourself and how to put up with workmates. I can't believe young people wouldn't want to do this, it's an adventure, but the amount of resumes with no work experience, one casual job, or one job like retail/fast food with very little exposure to anything else is too high.
2. Put in proper references. Look, if you're looking for a flying job but have never had any job before, go get one, work it for a while and get some experience in the world. Show up on time every day and ask the person who directly supervises you to be your reference. It is so clear when your reference isn't someone who'd be able to give a genuine critique on you as an employee.
3. Just my opinion, but no need to mention the hour building trip you did to a remote designated area.
4. Don't "Big" anything up. Present everything as is. The owner/chief looks at many resumes and as such can associate certain words with certain things (i.e. bull**** or a contrived take)
The numbers are: roughly around 1300 CPLs issued each year for the past decade.
Phone calls - many will get phone screens, depending on the company, you might even get a call if you emailed in from a different state.
In person interviews - a handful to a dozen - or in some cases many dozen applicants interviewed in person for 1-3 positions.
Start date: A few months to a year of ground duties before flying
Your game: needs to be top notch. How far away from land can you fly in a single engine on a part 135 flight? What's load factor? What's best angle of climb speed in xx frame in our fleet?
You need to be able to have a laugh, get on well with anyone, hold a conversation and have a skill or two outside of aviation. The old joke of "can fly a plane but can't use the washing machine" is not a state of preparedness you want to be going up north with.
Think outside the box: apply everywhere other than the top end as well. Call up people who might need a pilot. Don't be afraid to sound/look silly.
Outside of the box is where I built my hours to ~500, then got a start straight away in the top end. If you can manage to find something to get you to 500, you're about 500km ahead of the other newbies in the top end.
Here's one for ya: join the Australian Rural and Remote Jobs page on Facebook, have a look at the hot backpackers posting, then make a post and put yourself out there as a young pilot willing to work as a station hand and fly the plane if they have one.
There are TOO MANY resumes that come across the desks of owners/chiefs up here that look THE EXACT SAME. No or minimal work history. A CPL, maybe with a TWU, aeros or one or two interesting frames, a sentence about flying in remote areas during their CPL hour building on the email, awful references - sometimes only two references, the first a seemingly completely random person labelled something ambiguous like 'family friend' and another ambiguously related person who is a captain at Qantas etc.
1. Work a job or two. Bounce around. Get on the tools - get on a 2 stroke for a landscaping company, mix paint and roll it on the side of boats, pressure wash trucks, get a HR and run around day couriering - get on your feet and make yourself practical. Learn about yourself and how to put up with workmates. I can't believe young people wouldn't want to do this, it's an adventure, but the amount of resumes with no work experience, one casual job, or one job like retail/fast food with very little exposure to anything else is too high.
2. Put in proper references. Look, if you're looking for a flying job but have never had any job before, go get one, work it for a while and get some experience in the world. Show up on time every day and ask the person who directly supervises you to be your reference. It is so clear when your reference isn't someone who'd be able to give a genuine critique on you as an employee.
3. Just my opinion, but no need to mention the hour building trip you did to a remote designated area.
4. Don't "Big" anything up. Present everything as is. The owner/chief looks at many resumes and as such can associate certain words with certain things (i.e. bull**** or a contrived take)
Last edited by geebung; 29th May 2024 at 07:16.
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Try and have a non flying related skill on your Resume.
If that means getting a truck licence do it. I got a job because I had done a 6 week "intro to car maintenance" course at TAFE. A Person I met in Darwin got a job because he had done a forklift course. The company didn't own a forklift.
Now I changed the oil and did a radiator flush in the company ute once. It was on company time with company dime. I don't do stuff for free but I saved the owner a little cash.
Showing how you can value add to the business may be the leg up you need to stand out from the other 200 CPL holders.
If that means getting a truck licence do it. I got a job because I had done a 6 week "intro to car maintenance" course at TAFE. A Person I met in Darwin got a job because he had done a forklift course. The company didn't own a forklift.
Now I changed the oil and did a radiator flush in the company ute once. It was on company time with company dime. I don't do stuff for free but I saved the owner a little cash.
Showing how you can value add to the business may be the leg up you need to stand out from the other 200 CPL holders.
Now I changed the oil and did a radiator flush in the company ute once. It was on company time with company dime. I don't do stuff for free but I saved the owner a little cash.
Also be very careful in country areas especially of who knows the boss, or is friends, drinks etc with the operator you want to fly for. You never know what connections the people you work for/with/serve at the local shop, supermarket, so on, have to who you want to work for, so show good work ethic in those jobs while waiting. Who knows the old bloke you helped out in the shop one day might be the drinking buddy of the CP at the local charter mob and might just mention that night your name or such.
Not sure in the current market so short of pilots it's as big of deal as in the past. However I know several pilots who earned a reputation that was passed to other operators who basically blacklisted them. It's suprising how much even competitors talk to each other.
Last edited by 43Inches; 30th May 2024 at 03:13.
When I did training almost everyone had done or was doing something else at the time. We had a fireman an ex army guy etc. Nobody was fresh out of high school. This was only 20 years ago.
Occasionally I get a family friend ask if I can "help" someone get a job. All of them have finished at a big name flying school 6-12 months ago and don't have a flying job yet. When I ask where they thought they were getting a job when finished 99% say the school said they would get into QLink. Now schools are careful not to promise anything (just give big hints).
Govt funded flight training is getting out of control and this simply wasn't the case before (Hecs/fee help) would cover the bill. We still had unemployed CPL holders but everyone I trained with new the risks.
But also in response to a previous poster, I have watched people sail into town and have a job the next day. Maybe it does have something to do with your "face"!!
Last edited by Climb150; 30th May 2024 at 21:52.