Job Prospects - NT
I get the sarcasm but today's market is so saturated with people having 200TT and MECIR its really tough to stand out.
When I did training almost everyone had done or was doing something else at the time. We had a fireman an ex army guy etc. Nobody was fresh out of high school. This was only 20 years ago.
When I did training almost everyone had done or was doing something else at the time. We had a fireman an ex army guy etc. Nobody was fresh out of high school. This was only 20 years ago.
The resumes coming in the door today, are as you mention, mostly the same. 200hr MEIR, plus Diamond time. Age bracket is much the same, 20-25 ish, most at the lower end. Many never held a full time job. It’s very frustrating to sort the pile as all look the same, you start culling based on poor resume skills. Interviews are painful as everyone tells lies. I love interviewing those late 20s into 30s, 40s, as you can actually have a decent conversation, I often looked forward to hearing about someone past life and the challenges they faced. I don’t even need to ask questions, it just flows as a good in depth conversation and I walk away knowing what I should.
You just don’t get 30 or 40 year olds with a prior life coming in the door, you could say they are the smart ones, obviously more lucrative industries out there. If they do exist, they are normally offered jobs before they even finish training. I assisted with a recent wave of hiring, 250 resumes, nobody older than 28.
I am not saying hiring 20 or 25 year olds is a bad thing. However the generation of today isn’t like that of 20-30 years ago. Basically they are planning to leave as soon as they arrive, we are investing significantly in you, we are looking for at least 2 years commitment. I’d even take 1 year at the moment.
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Where I am right now is having a lot of trouble taking people from single engine piston to 50T jet. If you only barely passed CPL or Multi IR you will struggle in the SIM and on the line (a few wash out).
The ones with Metro, King Air or Caravan experience etc have a much easier time in training.
Just adding to what a previous poster mentioned that the new hires (in GA) plan to leave before they start. Don't be in a hurry. The more hours you have the lower your stress levels will be when you get on to a 73, 190 etc.
The ones with Metro, King Air or Caravan experience etc have a much easier time in training.
Just adding to what a previous poster mentioned that the new hires (in GA) plan to leave before they start. Don't be in a hurry. The more hours you have the lower your stress levels will be when you get on to a 73, 190 etc.
Last edited by Climb150; 1st Jun 2024 at 00:25.
Where I am right now is having a lot of trouble taking people from single engine piston to 50T jet. If you only barely passed CPL or Multi IR you will struggle in the SIM and on the line (a few wash out).
The ones with Metro, King Air or Caravan experience etc have a much easier time in training.
Just adding to what a previous poster mentioned that the new hires (in GA) plan to leave before they start. Don't be in a hurry. The more hours you have the lower your stress levels will be when you get on to a 73, 190 etc.
The ones with Metro, King Air or Caravan experience etc have a much easier time in training.
Just adding to what a previous poster mentioned that the new hires (in GA) plan to leave before they start. Don't be in a hurry. The more hours you have the lower your stress levels will be when you get on to a 73, 190 etc.
Sounds more like a training and checking department that needs to adapt, 250 hour cadets to the right seat of a 737/A320 is becoming pretty normal overseas. Australian training departments have had it relatively easy until late, due to most applicants being more a conversion to type rather than having to truly train the new candidate.
You want to give new hires more sims and more line training that's fine but where is the money coming from? Are we going back to paying for type ratings?
The 250 kids overseas washout too. We have to balance spending a reasonable amount of money on training versus getting someone over the line.
You want to give new hires more sims and more line training that's fine but where is the money coming from? Are we going back to paying for type ratings?
Now pilots are joining with real technique issues and training deficiencies, which means trainers are actually having to adjust basic techniques. From my experience most Australian airlines have/had a training system that was set up to convert a relatively experienced pilot with solid technique to their way of doing things, not teaching them how to land or fly an approach.
Also, whilst having 1000 hours VFR may not help you actually fly the plane, you can certainly tell the difference in radio work and situational awareness (most of the time with exceptions).
Mostly I agree with you though. 250 hour people are here to stay. When you aren't a destination employer you take what you can get. Also young people don't complain as much or question company policy.
Now pilots are joining with real technique issues and training deficiencies, which means trainers are actually having to adjust basic techniques. From my experience most Australian airlines have/had a training system that was set up to convert a relatively experienced pilot with solid technique to their way of doing things, not teaching them how to land or fly an approach.
Also, whilst having 1000 hours VFR may not help you actually fly the plane, you can certainly tell the difference in radio work and situational awareness (most of the time with exceptions).
Mostly I agree with you though. 250 hour people are here to stay. When you aren't a destination employer you take what you can get. Also young people don't complain as much or question company policy.
What is the point of a MECIR with only 200 odd hours? I couldn’t think of anything more risky than sending a 200 hour pilot alone into hard IFR weather. Also, remote IFR work consists of some marginal VFR flying at destinations - an art only acquired after a year or two VFR flying. Seems to me that money would be better spent acquiring 200 series time.
I can see the point only if one’s ambition is to become a voice activated gear retraction mechanism strutting around capital city airports.
I can see the point only if one’s ambition is to become a voice activated gear retraction mechanism strutting around capital city airports.
What is the point of a MECIR with only 200 odd hours? I couldn’t think of anything more risky than sending a 200 hour pilot alone into hard IFR weather. Also, remote IFR work consists of some marginal VFR flying at destinations - an art only acquired after a year or two VFR flying. Seems to me that money would be better spent acquiring 200 series time.
I can see the point only if one’s ambition is to become a voice activated gear retraction mechanism strutting around capital city airports.
I can see the point only if one’s ambition is to become a voice activated gear retraction mechanism strutting around capital city airports.
Why? 2 reasons. First of all, the weather in the top end can catch you out very quickly. What better skill to have behind you than an instrument rating that helps you avoid becoming another statistic. Secondly, things can move quickly progression wise. Gone are the days of needing 2,000+hrs before you’re touching a twin. The last thing you need is to have to be trying to get 6 or so weeks off work in a row, to go and do your MECIR, and watch someone bypass you because they already had it and were ready to go for your employer.
200 series time can be sought at any time.
The instrument rating gets my vote!
Tried to kill myself a few times early on flying VFR and pushing boundaries. I am not advocating flying IFR if VFR but the basic IFR skills from a rating will help to save your arse.
One of the gotchas is the smoke haze, nah she’ll be right, nekminit hmmmmm where’d that vis go?
Look at some of the recent NT fatalities.
An instrument rating will make you a better pilot, plus when you need it in the future you are only a brush up and renewal away.
Tried to kill myself a few times early on flying VFR and pushing boundaries. I am not advocating flying IFR if VFR but the basic IFR skills from a rating will help to save your arse.
One of the gotchas is the smoke haze, nah she’ll be right, nekminit hmmmmm where’d that vis go?
Look at some of the recent NT fatalities.
An instrument rating will make you a better pilot, plus when you need it in the future you are only a brush up and renewal away.
Most 206/210 operators are day VFR only however and won’t hire and induct for IFR flying. The 210/206 ops that do require IFR often ask for 500/750 hours minimum, eg Torres Strait. Most VFR operators will upgrade after one season and another reason is they are gauging if the candidate is worth it.
It’s a hard one as your employer might move you into IFR after one season, however your currency has slipped. Then on the flip side, your employer offers you an opportunity, but you don’t have the rating and need to go away. However, you are fresh. But makes it hard if you are remote. Some owners are more accommodating to people they are investing in, compared to others.
As a prior charter owner, for entry level operations, that was day VFR only, 200 series
time stood out more, as MEIR was at least half the normal resumes, as they often had been bundled with government subsidies. After one season, we promoted to the IFR Twin. We had lull periods in which people can go off for a short while, understand not all operators have those down periods.
Someone was telling me the other day a MEIR rating is 40k. Surely not? If that is the case, then I would probably attach it onto a funded bundled scheme, as I cannot imagine many have the lever to pull that amount of cash from the bank after a year bouncing around in VFR. The renewal cost would only be a drop in the ocean.
It’s a hard one as your employer might move you into IFR after one season, however your currency has slipped. Then on the flip side, your employer offers you an opportunity, but you don’t have the rating and need to go away. However, you are fresh. But makes it hard if you are remote. Some owners are more accommodating to people they are investing in, compared to others.
As a prior charter owner, for entry level operations, that was day VFR only, 200 series
time stood out more, as MEIR was at least half the normal resumes, as they often had been bundled with government subsidies. After one season, we promoted to the IFR Twin. We had lull periods in which people can go off for a short while, understand not all operators have those down periods.
Someone was telling me the other day a MEIR rating is 40k. Surely not? If that is the case, then I would probably attach it onto a funded bundled scheme, as I cannot imagine many have the lever to pull that amount of cash from the bank after a year bouncing around in VFR. The renewal cost would only be a drop in the ocean.
Last edited by nomess; 9th Jun 2024 at 02:37.
Having a Quick Look, seems to vary a bit 30-40k ish depending if tied to a Diploma. Most VET/Diploma courses are about $40k/3 months. Slightly disturbing the fine print mentioning a 20% VET fee on top of that.
I now believe the statements from newly licensed pilots who claim they are 150k in debt. I guess a positive is they walk about with all the ratings, just need to worry about renewals, oh, and paying back the loan.
I now believe the statements from newly licensed pilots who claim they are 150k in debt. I guess a positive is they walk about with all the ratings, just need to worry about renewals, oh, and paying back the loan.
OK..it’s been 45 years since I flew GA in the top end. Nevertheless, I cannot ever recall the weather changing that quickly. There are no terrain issues up there. You just keep descending and flying as low as necessary to stay visual, and when it became uncomfortable, you’d do a U turn and go back to where you started and try again the next day. This is what everyone did.
No one in a C206 is flying a live heart or kidney to a transplant patient in Port Keats. It’s character forming for a new pilot to make difficult decisions which disappoint both the clients and the owners. The strength of character to say “no” is the singular most important trait in a safe pilot.
As for keeping straight and level in reduced viz for a couple of minutes, surely doesn’t need a full instrument rating. In my time no one had one, no one I know died.so, what’s changed?
I stand by my assertion that a MECIR a total waste of money for a 200 hour kid (unless they’re jumping into the RHS of a 320 or 737). Bluntly, it’s upselling by training providers. You go into Maccas for a bare bones burger and walk out with the burger, fries and a large Coke which you didn’t need.
No one in a C206 is flying a live heart or kidney to a transplant patient in Port Keats. It’s character forming for a new pilot to make difficult decisions which disappoint both the clients and the owners. The strength of character to say “no” is the singular most important trait in a safe pilot.
As for keeping straight and level in reduced viz for a couple of minutes, surely doesn’t need a full instrument rating. In my time no one had one, no one I know died.so, what’s changed?
I stand by my assertion that a MECIR a total waste of money for a 200 hour kid (unless they’re jumping into the RHS of a 320 or 737). Bluntly, it’s upselling by training providers. You go into Maccas for a bare bones burger and walk out with the burger, fries and a large Coke which you didn’t need.
Last edited by lucille; 9th Jun 2024 at 10:05.
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At least one operator back in my time didn’t hire you unless you had a current instrument rating, and that was just for a C210 job. However less than 12 months into my first year I found myself doing IFR flying. Wouldn’t have been possible without having my CIR before I went north.
Lucille, like I said earlier, things are moving so fast these days compared to 45 years ago, that you’ll be left behind if you don’t have it before you go north.
Lucille, like I said earlier, things are moving so fast these days compared to 45 years ago, that you’ll be left behind if you don’t have it before you go north.
Lucille is on the money.
No need for the IR until there’s been some time to consolidate on SE VFR ops - saves the trainee money & ensures a better product in the end.
As a “hirer & firer” in the region in question - I place no credit on an applicant with an IR over one who doesn’t - in fact, I view the applicant without the IR as a better prospect as they clearly have a more realistic viewpoint & are likely to be a little more stable for my companies over their tenure. We will work to support their training for the IR when the time comes - provided they’ve made an effort to help us achieve our business goals along the way. As always, business is a “two way street”. You help me & I’ll help you…
At time of writing, there is plenty of opportunity in the NT for young pilots who are keen to succeed but who understand that the relationship needs to be about a mutual respect - they need the opportunity to start their career & the Company needs a genuine team player who will invest in making things better than they were found. I interview heaps of wannabes, but am happy to pass on them if I don’t think they understand this basic concept.
It has become such an issue with young pilots in Australia that our Company, as well as others, are looking at pilots trained overseas to fill our needs.
At the end of the day, it’s all about attitude & mutual respect.
No need for the IR until there’s been some time to consolidate on SE VFR ops - saves the trainee money & ensures a better product in the end.
As a “hirer & firer” in the region in question - I place no credit on an applicant with an IR over one who doesn’t - in fact, I view the applicant without the IR as a better prospect as they clearly have a more realistic viewpoint & are likely to be a little more stable for my companies over their tenure. We will work to support their training for the IR when the time comes - provided they’ve made an effort to help us achieve our business goals along the way. As always, business is a “two way street”. You help me & I’ll help you…
At time of writing, there is plenty of opportunity in the NT for young pilots who are keen to succeed but who understand that the relationship needs to be about a mutual respect - they need the opportunity to start their career & the Company needs a genuine team player who will invest in making things better than they were found. I interview heaps of wannabes, but am happy to pass on them if I don’t think they understand this basic concept.
It has become such an issue with young pilots in Australia that our Company, as well as others, are looking at pilots trained overseas to fill our needs.
At the end of the day, it’s all about attitude & mutual respect.
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I’d be pretty disgusted if you’re overlooking Australian pilots in favour of foreign pilots. Maybe look at your business practices if people aren’t giving you mutual respect. Always been a problem with GA companies in Australia.
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Don’t be disgusted, Morno.
It’s a combination of the poor standard of training in this country exaggerated by unrealistic expectations of our youngsters versus what comes from overseas. As a GA business, we just can’t keep pumping money into training pilots in things that they should have been provided in flying school. The overseas candidates are better at the moment - and they seem to be keen to get amongst it, for the most part. I’m always glad to give an Aussie a go if they can hold their own - but at the moment, most of them can’t. It pains me to say that, because I’ve served my country & want to “buy local”.
As is typical, it’s the GA operators who cop the hate & disgust when in reality the problem doesn’t lie (totally) with them. Look at the training schools (sausage factories) if you want the root cause. They create cadets possibly suitable for airlines, but not fit for purpose in GA. Airline flying is a different skill set to GA, and being “airline trained” does not translate to an effective GA pilot.
Plenty of jobs in the NT at the moment. BTW, my business practices are sound - we do our absolute best for our team, but I guess that for some people, the world is not enough, eh?
It’s a combination of the poor standard of training in this country exaggerated by unrealistic expectations of our youngsters versus what comes from overseas. As a GA business, we just can’t keep pumping money into training pilots in things that they should have been provided in flying school. The overseas candidates are better at the moment - and they seem to be keen to get amongst it, for the most part. I’m always glad to give an Aussie a go if they can hold their own - but at the moment, most of them can’t. It pains me to say that, because I’ve served my country & want to “buy local”.
As is typical, it’s the GA operators who cop the hate & disgust when in reality the problem doesn’t lie (totally) with them. Look at the training schools (sausage factories) if you want the root cause. They create cadets possibly suitable for airlines, but not fit for purpose in GA. Airline flying is a different skill set to GA, and being “airline trained” does not translate to an effective GA pilot.
Plenty of jobs in the NT at the moment. BTW, my business practices are sound - we do our absolute best for our team, but I guess that for some people, the world is not enough, eh?
So you are saying bringing in a foreign pilot on a visa with all the money and hassle that entails, converting their foreign licence and getting them an ASIC is cheaper than hiring a local?
I find that hard to believe. Unless you mean that if you sponsor their visa they are tied to you and can't leave?
I find that hard to believe. Unless you mean that if you sponsor their visa they are tied to you and can't leave?
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Where are these foreign pilots of great quality coming from?
Airlines used the 457 Visa, Tiger & Air North both had/have South Africans, what other nations are you get these ‘better pilots’ from?
It has been a very long time since I employed entry level pilots, but yes a lot of it was about attitude, at 200 hours we didn’t expect a great deal. A check ride would see if it was worth it and then plenty of ICUS. Yes hard work on both sides but mutually beneficial in the long run, 210, Twin, Bigger Twin, off to the regionals or airlines.
I find it very hard to believe that anyone would need to turn to overseas at the entry level.
Give locals a go and invest the $ you spend on bringing in the foreign ‘talent’.
Airlines used the 457 Visa, Tiger & Air North both had/have South Africans, what other nations are you get these ‘better pilots’ from?
It has been a very long time since I employed entry level pilots, but yes a lot of it was about attitude, at 200 hours we didn’t expect a great deal. A check ride would see if it was worth it and then plenty of ICUS. Yes hard work on both sides but mutually beneficial in the long run, 210, Twin, Bigger Twin, off to the regionals or airlines.
I find it very hard to believe that anyone would need to turn to overseas at the entry level.
Give locals a go and invest the $ you spend on bringing in the foreign ‘talent’.
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