Turbo 210 forced landing at Bankstown
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I would dearly like to know if he pulled the pitch to full coarse to lengthen the glide? I always had that in the back of my mind and did try it on a normal approach once and it did appear to add distance but no idea how much it would have helped and fortunately I never had to find out.
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There might of been partial power available, which may of just been enough to get him to the field. I've had that happen to me more than once. Going full coarse in that state is risky. Gotta weigh it up at the time. Probably why some manufacturers are hesitant to publish full coarse figures.
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Masses of grass areas in a city development area aren’t ideal.
If they’re outside of the runway splays there’ll be no luck of having grass anywhere anymore.
I would dearly like to know if he pulled the pitch to full coarse to lengthen the glide? I always had that in the back of my mind and did try it on a normal approach once and it did appear to add distance but no idea how much it would have helped and fortunately I never had to find out.
I watch the Channel 7 video and the pilot did a fantastic job.
Really pays to have a headset and a PTT eh. Hope the damage was minimal apart from the engine rebuild and he and she, MYW, are back flying soon.
I watch the Channel 7 video and the pilot did a fantastic job.
Really pays to have a headset and a PTT eh. Hope the damage was minimal apart from the engine rebuild and he and she, MYW, are back flying soon.
In my experience in PFL, selecting coarse pitch gives a very noticeable improvement in glide.
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Seems that Bob Tait disagrees: (I don't personally know what's best, I was just googling it to see what was said and I found this)
In the case of a single engine, it is better that the failure of oil pressure in the hub sends the blades to wards fine pitch.
Full coarse in a single makes a big drag difference. You can noticeably feel the acceleration/deceleration it if you go try it during a PFL.
But that only applies in a zero power situation. Partial power you may be better off full fine and just getting whatever you can.
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What Bob is referring to is purely a failure of the propellor governing mechanism, not the entire engine. In the case of a single engine, non-aerobatic piston engine, have the prop in fine pitch is desirable for the ability to climb. Twins are designed to go coarse (reduce drag) in the event of an oil pressure loss and an aerobatic aircraft losing oil pressure (eg. while temporarily inverted) are set up the same way so they don’t go fine and over speed the engine/prop.
From what others have written, the helicopter crew filming must have been on VH-TCN. FlightAware had it at Bankstown around then: https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/VHTCN
Do the ABC now also use that helicopter for aerial work around Sydney area? They also showed the same footage. Gone are the days when each TV station in Sydney area operated their own helicopter(s), including even NBN in Newcastle.
What Bob is referring to is purely a failure of the propellor governing mechanism, not the entire engine. In the case of a single engine, non-aerobatic piston engine, have the prop in fine pitch is desirable for the ability to climb. Twins are designed to go coarse (reduce drag) in the event of an oil pressure loss and an aerobatic aircraft losing oil pressure (eg. while temporarily inverted) are set up the same way so they don’t go fine and over speed the engine/prop.
Squawk, you keep confusing and conflating the reasons for the different ways in which propeller governing systems are designed as between single engined and multi engined aircraft, on the one hand, for the reasons why different propeller settings should be chosen during a forced landing in a single engined aircraft on the other.
The propeller governing systems fitted to twin engined aircraft are usually designed such that 'full coarse' is where the propeller goes if there's a failure in the prop governing system. That's because a windmilling/stationary full fine propeller will cause muchos drag and, therefore, yaw and reduced airspeed when fitted to one wing of an aircraft that has a serviceable engine delivering 'normal' power on the other wing. That problem doesn't exist on a single engined aircraft. On a single engined aircraft, the 'least worst' default position for a propeller governing system is 'full fine'. That's where the engine will produce the 'best thrust' it can for whatever power the engine may be able to produce. But...
That windmilling (usually) or stationary (rarely) prop at full fine also produces muchos drag (but not yaw) for a single engined aircraft. One way to reduce that drag is to select 'full coarse'. I've done it many times during practised forced landings in single engined aircraft. I can feel the acceleration as the aircraft is rid of the drag of the 'flat' prop, every time. I select 'full coarse' because I was taught to. I was taught to do that because it's a way to extend glide range ... by a lot.
The propeller governing systems fitted to twin engined aircraft are usually designed such that 'full coarse' is where the propeller goes if there's a failure in the prop governing system. That's because a windmilling/stationary full fine propeller will cause muchos drag and, therefore, yaw and reduced airspeed when fitted to one wing of an aircraft that has a serviceable engine delivering 'normal' power on the other wing. That problem doesn't exist on a single engined aircraft. On a single engined aircraft, the 'least worst' default position for a propeller governing system is 'full fine'. That's where the engine will produce the 'best thrust' it can for whatever power the engine may be able to produce. But...
That windmilling (usually) or stationary (rarely) prop at full fine also produces muchos drag (but not yaw) for a single engined aircraft. One way to reduce that drag is to select 'full coarse'. I've done it many times during practised forced landings in single engined aircraft. I can feel the acceleration as the aircraft is rid of the drag of the 'flat' prop, every time. I select 'full coarse' because I was taught to. I was taught to do that because it's a way to extend glide range ... by a lot.
Last edited by Lead Balloon; 27th May 2024 at 10:06.
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I pray that if my sphincter is ever as tight as the two on this aircraft, or my heart is beating as fast as this steely eyed missile man's that I can maintain best glide speed, minimise the drag as he did by no angle of bank until he cleared that last building and walk away to fly another day
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Oh for crying out loud, the aircraft path was not a runway approach, and the buildings are single storey sheds. The additional risk to anyone and everyone except for this isolated incident is to all intents and purposes nil.
Squawk, you keep confusing and conflating the reasons for the different ways in which propeller governing systems are designed as between single engined and multi engined aircraft, on the one hand, for the reasons why different propeller settings should be chosen during a forced landing in a single engined aircraft on the other.
Well, it depends on what you mean by "failed", Squawk.
To take the most common reason for piston engine "failure" - fuel exhaustion or starvation - the propeller is almost invariably 'windmilling' and you certainly do get a choice of the pitch setting.
When you get some hours up on an 'ordinary' GA single with an 'ordinary' CSU prop, you'll see what I'm talking about.
To take the most common reason for piston engine "failure" - fuel exhaustion or starvation - the propeller is almost invariably 'windmilling' and you certainly do get a choice of the pitch setting.
When you get some hours up on an 'ordinary' GA single with an 'ordinary' CSU prop, you'll see what I'm talking about.
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