Aussie pilots overseas..your experience??
The following 7 users liked this post by Waghi Warrior:
Prickly - check your PM's.
Between 88 to 2002 I did GA bush flying, Military flying, Coastwatch, RFDS and then VB. On a 4 day pattern in late 2001 and 3rd sector of MEL/SYD/MEL/SYD/MEL I decided that there was no way I could do that for the next 30 years (or even 10) so applied and was accepted to EK. I have seen/experienced far more of the world than I ever would have imagined, have had amazing holidays an family time and also it has been reasonable for the bank balance. Professionally I have achieved far more than would ever have been possible in the Australian 'small pond'' as Aus sadly doesn't even really have a truly international airline. After nearly 20 years away the biggest problem is working out where to retire-and by that I mean which country. The longer you are an expat the harder it is to give it up. We are now seriously considering living between 2 countries for summer and winter as we realise that Australia, while not bad, has changed significantly from the country we left (look at how it treated its own citizens during covid, and the way they accepted it!), as has our perspective. One of the biggest issues of moving abroad in aviation is you will be dealing with the 'austronaut' legacy, which I understand from friends still flying in Aus is sadly very much alive and well still.
Retirement can also be considered at an earlier age if you’ve been sensible with your money whilst abroad. I’m also planning on alternating between two countries, QLD in winter is beautiful with clear blue skies and 25’ days but summer with the heat, humidity and TS isn’t so much fun. However the Australian summer is SE Asian winter which is cool and dry with no cyclones.
From about 70 years old onwards, full time in Australia is probably better with the usual age related health issues, proximity to family and not having an excess of energy to go exploring anymore. I’ll enjoy my free bus pass, pensioner discounts and membership at the bowling club.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
prickly Thanks, we're well aware of the fact that we and Australia has changed over the past 20 years. That's one of the reasons why we started preparing a few years ago for the move. We bought a house on the Sunshine Coast and have engaged financial people so we don't fall into any tax traps. The UK has changed a lot too and to be honest, I just don't think it is a nice country to retire in. Brexit scuppered any chance of moving to Spain/France to retire and the winters are just so grim.
I've been really lucky with the job and I really do enjoy it. However, even part time takes its toll and we want to live near a beach again.
The move OS wasn't on my radar in 2000 but well, fate dealt me a hand I had to play.
I've been privileged to fly a private jet all over the Northern Hemisphere, got 2 degrees and a smattering of swear words in different languages. It's been a lot of fun but Australia's calling us back.
I've been really lucky with the job and I really do enjoy it. However, even part time takes its toll and we want to live near a beach again.
The move OS wasn't on my radar in 2000 but well, fate dealt me a hand I had to play.
I've been privileged to fly a private jet all over the Northern Hemisphere, got 2 degrees and a smattering of swear words in different languages. It's been a lot of fun but Australia's calling us back.
The following 3 users liked this post by redsnail:
prickly Thanks, we're well aware of the fact that we and Australia has changed over the past 20 years. That's one of the reasons why we started preparing a few years ago for the move. We bought a house on the Sunshine Coast and have engaged financial people so we don't fall into any tax traps. The UK has changed a lot too and to be honest, I just don't think it is a nice country to retire in. Brexit scuppered any chance of moving to Spain/France to retire and the winters are just so grim.
I've been really lucky with the job and I really do enjoy it. However, even part time takes its toll and we want to live near a beach again.
The move OS wasn't on my radar in 2000 but well, fate dealt me a hand I had to play.
I've been privileged to fly a private jet all over the Northern Hemisphere, got 2 degrees and a smattering of swear words in different languages. It's been a lot of fun but Australia's calling us back.
I've been really lucky with the job and I really do enjoy it. However, even part time takes its toll and we want to live near a beach again.
The move OS wasn't on my radar in 2000 but well, fate dealt me a hand I had to play.
I've been privileged to fly a private jet all over the Northern Hemisphere, got 2 degrees and a smattering of swear words in different languages. It's been a lot of fun but Australia's calling us back.
We came back from a couple of decades in the middle east a couple of years ago. Had a fantastic time over there, and now loving being on the coast.
Good luck with the move and your shout at the surf club when you are back.
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I have experienced Aussie pilots overseas, really pedantic. They usually try to demonstrate how superior they are, often by focusing on the irrelevant. Outside of the cockpit they are a good laugh and you can have a fun evening over a few beers but once back at work it's overcomplicating things again and making the job harder than it has to be. That's my experience of Aussie pilots overseas.
I have experienced Aussie pilots overseas, really pedantic. They usually try to demonstrate how superior they are, often by focusing on the irrelevant. Outside of the cockpit they are a good laugh and you can have a fun evening over a few beers but once back at work it's overcomplicating things again and making the job harder than it has to be. That's my experience of Aussie pilots overseas.
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I’ve lived and worked overseas for 30+ years. I’ve had more fun and job satisfaction than any deserves to have in a lifetime. Coming home to retire has not been all that it’s cracked up to be.
The Nanny State is doing my head in, 30+ years of enjoying unfettered individual liberty suddenly snuffed out when I came back home. There's a law or rule for everything and no shortage of aspiring class monitor vigilantes lining up to keep me informed of my transgressions.
The Nanny State is doing my head in, 30+ years of enjoying unfettered individual liberty suddenly snuffed out when I came back home. There's a law or rule for everything and no shortage of aspiring class monitor vigilantes lining up to keep me informed of my transgressions.
The following 8 users liked this post by lucille:
I’ve lived and worked overseas for 30+ years. I’ve had more fun and job satisfaction than any deserves to have in a lifetime. Coming home to retire has not been all that it’s cracked up to be.
The Nanny State is doing my head in, 30+ years of enjoying unfettered individual liberty suddenly snuffed out when I came back home. There's a law or rule for everything and no shortage of aspiring class monitor vigilantes lining up to keep me informed of my transgressions.
The Nanny State is doing my head in, 30+ years of enjoying unfettered individual liberty suddenly snuffed out when I came back home. There's a law or rule for everything and no shortage of aspiring class monitor vigilantes lining up to keep me informed of my transgressions.
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The rot in the Australian airline industry for pilots started in August 1989, and the legacy continues to this day for a large majority of Australian based pilots.
Sadly this forum is littered with thousands, if not millions of discussions that prove this statement.
Sadly this forum is littered with thousands, if not millions of discussions that prove this statement.
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A cadre of understandably bitter 89ers changed the Australian pilot landscape dramatically. Pay for your endorsement and low standards which made a mockery of the airline industry in Australia. Pay for your endorsements are now the norm and Virgin pilots always bitching about their wage.
Well done!
The following 3 users liked this post by Gnadenburg:
Prickly - you were the funniest guy to fly with on the 330, particularly in the terminals with your commentary on the behaviours of "the locals." Fun times. Wondering if you remember the standoff with 3 chinese officials in a desrted, after midnight Shanghai airport for walking down the wrong side of metal railing. Prickly versus Basil Fawlty and 2 Manuels.
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One of the biggest educators on Australian society is travelling overseas...........and understanding how much of a nanny state and pack of dobbers Australia is and Australians are. Google 'Australians are not laid back' and click on the Damien Power skit. Australians100%
Travelling to the US and the overwhelming sense of freedom and the lack of jackbooted thug police like VicPol. A police force in the US refused to enforce covid restrictions because they deemed it unconstitutional as opposed to every police force in Australia becoming an arm of government.
The thing that keeps one here is the underlying civil society Australia is meant to be. If you can deal with having to get a permit every time you want to scratch your arse.
Travelling to the US and the overwhelming sense of freedom and the lack of jackbooted thug police like VicPol. A police force in the US refused to enforce covid restrictions because they deemed it unconstitutional as opposed to every police force in Australia becoming an arm of government.
The thing that keeps one here is the underlying civil society Australia is meant to be. If you can deal with having to get a permit every time you want to scratch your arse.
The following 5 users liked this post by Hoosten:
This is a great thread.
I left Straya in 2007, have not looked back.
Only issues I’ve ever had in the flight deck has been with Aussies and Sth Americans… 🤷🏽♂️
The biggest thing for me being an expat (or travelling) is to learn about the cultures of the countries, accept the cultures and laws and live happily. I find it hilarious when expats biatch about this.
Finally as an expat at times you can feel not wanted. I once pointed out to a local that if there were enough local pilots then we would be gone. I asked him what he would do in my shoes, the penny dropped. Low a behold come Covid and every expat was actually not needed anymore so……. Again I couldn’t believe what came out of some expats mouths.
I still love Straya but I do scratch my head a lot when back.
I left Straya in 2007, have not looked back.
Only issues I’ve ever had in the flight deck has been with Aussies and Sth Americans… 🤷🏽♂️
The biggest thing for me being an expat (or travelling) is to learn about the cultures of the countries, accept the cultures and laws and live happily. I find it hilarious when expats biatch about this.
Finally as an expat at times you can feel not wanted. I once pointed out to a local that if there were enough local pilots then we would be gone. I asked him what he would do in my shoes, the penny dropped. Low a behold come Covid and every expat was actually not needed anymore so……. Again I couldn’t believe what came out of some expats mouths.
I still love Straya but I do scratch my head a lot when back.
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[QUOTE=Trevor the lover;11671141]Prickly - you were the funniest guy to fly with on the 330, particularly in the terminals with your commentary on the behaviours of "the locals." Fun times. Wondering if you remember the standoff with 3 chinese officials in a desrted, after midnight Shanghai airport for walking down the wrong side of metal railing. Prickly versus Basil Fawlty and 2 Manuels.[/QUOTE
Can't say I recall that particular event, there where so many. Probably I was a little outspoken, hence the nickname. I wouldn't try that these days.
Can't say I recall that particular event, there where so many. Probably I was a little outspoken, hence the nickname. I wouldn't try that these days.
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I’ve lived and worked overseas for 30+ years. I’ve had more fun and job satisfaction than any deserves to have in a lifetime. Coming home to retire has not been all that it’s cracked up to be.
The Nanny State is doing my head in, 30+ years of enjoying unfettered individual liberty suddenly snuffed out when I came back home. There's a law or rule for everything and no shortage of aspiring class monitor vigilantes lining up to keep me informed of my transgressions.
The Nanny State is doing my head in, 30+ years of enjoying unfettered individual liberty suddenly snuffed out when I came back home. There's a law or rule for everything and no shortage of aspiring class monitor vigilantes lining up to keep me informed of my transgressions.
There was the 'then' and now there is the 'now'. It's changed considerably since my time in aviation, but FWIW:
I got my CPL here at age 19, and by the time I was 21, I had 1500 hours, some light twin time and an Instrument Rating. But, by then I was bored witless with flying in Australia and headed off overseas to become rich & famous. HA !
The benefits were several. Easy to get a job almost anywhere back then. Early command, the ability to change jobs while retaining command, flying in very challenging conditions, being paid to see places well before mass tourism spoiled them. The only things I missed about Australia were the beaches and climate.
I found every operator I worked for paid wages and allowances promptly. Perhaps this was forced on them by legislation, but there were never any dodgy non-payments such as happens here sometimes. In fact, the best airline I ever worked for was Iran Air (back in the days of the Shah), which treated us with respect, even when the revolution of 1979 forced all expatriates out. They paid every entitlement - albeit in devalued currency (not the airline's fault).
Operators had practical and fair check and training systems, and were quite flexible with SOPs. You could argue that flexible SOPs are not a good idea, but we adapted as necessary and nowhere I worked had a bad safety record.
Sure, there were fake pilots of doubtful competence, but I have met just as many of those here in Oz. Even pilots with forged documents, including one with a falsified CASA licence!
After 18 years, for family reasons I returned to Oz. The first few years were interesting enough, setting up a tour company and with some long range ferry flying to keep me sane. Then one good operator here kept me happy enough for 10 years, but the early mornings and boredom eventually got to me. The flying here is truly stultifying.
That's when I first encountered dishonest, toxic management - right here in good old Oz. Also, for the first time in my life, got stiffed on superannuation payments, and payouts when an operator went bankrupt. Pissweak government enforcement of employee entitlements. Another operator quite happy to falsify maintenance records. Falsified training records. Screaming skull types in check and training roles. I could go on...
The other great disappointment about returning to Oz was the standard of education. My kids would have been far better off had they gone to any one of a number of International Schools available overseas.
The upside to being here remains the climate, and as one ages, the good and affordable healthcare. That's about it.
In retrospect, I could have easily done another 18 years overseas, been better off financially, and still got back here in time to squeeze a few years flying in the FIFO business. But staying overseas, I would have missed out on some great sailing.
I got my CPL here at age 19, and by the time I was 21, I had 1500 hours, some light twin time and an Instrument Rating. But, by then I was bored witless with flying in Australia and headed off overseas to become rich & famous. HA !
The benefits were several. Easy to get a job almost anywhere back then. Early command, the ability to change jobs while retaining command, flying in very challenging conditions, being paid to see places well before mass tourism spoiled them. The only things I missed about Australia were the beaches and climate.
I found every operator I worked for paid wages and allowances promptly. Perhaps this was forced on them by legislation, but there were never any dodgy non-payments such as happens here sometimes. In fact, the best airline I ever worked for was Iran Air (back in the days of the Shah), which treated us with respect, even when the revolution of 1979 forced all expatriates out. They paid every entitlement - albeit in devalued currency (not the airline's fault).
Operators had practical and fair check and training systems, and were quite flexible with SOPs. You could argue that flexible SOPs are not a good idea, but we adapted as necessary and nowhere I worked had a bad safety record.
Sure, there were fake pilots of doubtful competence, but I have met just as many of those here in Oz. Even pilots with forged documents, including one with a falsified CASA licence!
After 18 years, for family reasons I returned to Oz. The first few years were interesting enough, setting up a tour company and with some long range ferry flying to keep me sane. Then one good operator here kept me happy enough for 10 years, but the early mornings and boredom eventually got to me. The flying here is truly stultifying.
That's when I first encountered dishonest, toxic management - right here in good old Oz. Also, for the first time in my life, got stiffed on superannuation payments, and payouts when an operator went bankrupt. Pissweak government enforcement of employee entitlements. Another operator quite happy to falsify maintenance records. Falsified training records. Screaming skull types in check and training roles. I could go on...
The other great disappointment about returning to Oz was the standard of education. My kids would have been far better off had they gone to any one of a number of International Schools available overseas.
The upside to being here remains the climate, and as one ages, the good and affordable healthcare. That's about it.
In retrospect, I could have easily done another 18 years overseas, been better off financially, and still got back here in time to squeeze a few years flying in the FIFO business. But staying overseas, I would have missed out on some great sailing.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 11th Jun 2024 at 02:05. Reason: I’d almost forgotten the screamers
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