S211 Down Port Phillip Bay
Sobering pictures.
A good video here with some close formation around the 8min mark.
Note the high level of visibility of the leading edge due to the mid-wing design.
A good video here with some close formation around the 8min mark.
Note the high level of visibility of the leading edge due to the mid-wing design.
Sobering pictures.
A good video here with some close formation around the 8min mark.
Note the high level of visibility of the leading edge due to the mid-wing design.
https://youtu.be/x7rfjleV5Ns?si=YHBcDOkZxl1bP043
A good video here with some close formation around the 8min mark.
Note the high level of visibility of the leading edge due to the mid-wing design.
https://youtu.be/x7rfjleV5Ns?si=YHBcDOkZxl1bP043
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In Post #193 Squawk may be close to the mark: The Age article at https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...25-p5emqk.html has: "Victoria Police Acting Superintendent Martin Bourke said the initial investigation indicated the wing of the plane struck the wing of another plane while they were performing tandem manoeuvres."
I also now realise 'wondering' if the jet would hit the sea bed in ~20m water depth was neither here nor there. Loads on the structure and deceleration on contact with water must have been massive given the wreckage.
I also now realise 'wondering' if the jet would hit the sea bed in ~20m water depth was neither here nor there. Loads on the structure and deceleration on contact with water must have been massive given the wreckage.
Did it have an FDR?
Squawk7700, I'm presuming they were operating VFR so were probably squawking 1200 and given the aircraft rego was showing up on FR24 they had ADS-B. WebTrak may have been "censored" to remove the accident aircraft.
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Originally Posted by WetCompass
Yeah, nah.
How does the pilot sitting in the command seat assess the damage to the wing-spar, or tail section? Do you recall the Embry-Riddle Uni PA-28R that lost a wing during circuits? That flight had an examiner on board, he couldn't tell a fatigue crack was about to break. Why do we attribute super-human abilities of x-ray vision to pilots?
Fact of the matter is, the PIC of DQJ was concerned about something, but never actually stated the nature of his concern on the radio apart from mentioning something late in the flight about the runway needing inspection after landing. The wing had struck another aeroplane and the extent of the damage to the airframe was unknown at the time. There was a suitable airport available that did not require overflying built up areas for a landing and it was not offered up as an alternative by ATC and we don't know yet if it was considered by the crew. But there was mention of Moorabbin by ATC. Why? Well, we'll find out. But for now, not a criticism of the aircrew or ATC, but could we do better if it was us? Well I think so, but we need to think about it clearly on the ground before we embark on our next flight.
Yeah, nah.
How does the pilot sitting in the command seat assess the damage to the wing-spar, or tail section? Do you recall the Embry-Riddle Uni PA-28R that lost a wing during circuits? That flight had an examiner on board, he couldn't tell a fatigue crack was about to break. Why do we attribute super-human abilities of x-ray vision to pilots?
Fact of the matter is, the PIC of DQJ was concerned about something, but never actually stated the nature of his concern on the radio apart from mentioning something late in the flight about the runway needing inspection after landing. The wing had struck another aeroplane and the extent of the damage to the airframe was unknown at the time. There was a suitable airport available that did not require overflying built up areas for a landing and it was not offered up as an alternative by ATC and we don't know yet if it was considered by the crew. But there was mention of Moorabbin by ATC. Why? Well, we'll find out. But for now, not a criticism of the aircrew or ATC, but could we do better if it was us? Well I think so, but we need to think about it clearly on the ground before we embark on our next flight.
As far as who calls what, when the exhaust system fell off Glenn Todd and Kell Aldridge's aircraft and took out my propeller and silenced Pete Nalder for most of the rest of the flight, trimming his nose somewhat, I seem to recall that I put out the mayday for both aircraft, and funny enough, no one actually complained about that at the time or subsequently. Years later, sitting around Dave Stevensons hangar at Corona ("Dave crashes better than anyone I know...") 3 of us in the hangar had lost props in flight, and not one of us was complaining about the mayday calls that we had made.
The Mayday call gets a bit of peace on the line, and gets some attention to what the guys are going to come up with next, is is supposed to.
As far as controllability checks go, they were -1 and NATOPS standard procedures, seeing is nice but the plane will talk to the driver and suggest a course of action if they have the sense to listen and apply simple "CDF" to the matter at hand.
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Normally only the leaser would be squawking mode A/C, the rest are squawking stay for close form. Serious question, if that has changed, I am all ears.
Edit: in hindsight, that timeline doesn't quite stack up, but odd that I saw it at the time ( I sent a text to my brother discussing it, so not like memory playing tricks on me)
Last edited by DARKMAIZE; 26th Nov 2023 at 20:22.
It was all over the news by about 230pm so your timeline recollection is probably correct.
I was up flying and was going to head over to Drysdale from Mt Martha way and assumed some kind of SAR exercise was taking place in the danger area as there were half a dozen aircraft in the one spot.
I was up flying and was going to head over to Drysdale from Mt Martha way and assumed some kind of SAR exercise was taking place in the danger area as there were half a dozen aircraft in the one spot.
The ERAU accident involved a competent and professional FAA DPER, John Azma, who I knew well,, from Orlando Executive. The failure he had was not foreseeable by the crew and was not survivable, shades of a certain Macchi loss of Willie many years ago. I had a sister ship tot eh one that was lost, but was far fewer hours and cycles, and we grounded my one from testing subject to detailed inspection. Losing a wing is a permanent mess to your day.
As far as who calls what, when the exhaust system fell off Glenn Todd and Kell Aldridge's aircraft and took out my propeller and silenced Pete Nalder for most of the rest of the flight, trimming his nose somewhat, I seem to recall that I put out the mayday for both aircraft, and funny enough, no one actually complained about that at the time or subsequently. Years later, sitting around Dave Stevensons hangar at Corona ("Dave crashes better than anyone I know...") 3 of us in the hangar had lost props in flight, and not one of us was complaining about the mayday calls that we had made.
The Mayday call gets a bit of peace on the line, and gets some attention to what the guys are going to come up with next, is is supposed to.
As far as controllability checks go, they were -1 and NATOPS standard procedures, seeing is nice but the plane will talk to the driver and suggest a course of action if they have the sense to listen and apply simple "CDF" to the matter at hand.
As far as who calls what, when the exhaust system fell off Glenn Todd and Kell Aldridge's aircraft and took out my propeller and silenced Pete Nalder for most of the rest of the flight, trimming his nose somewhat, I seem to recall that I put out the mayday for both aircraft, and funny enough, no one actually complained about that at the time or subsequently. Years later, sitting around Dave Stevensons hangar at Corona ("Dave crashes better than anyone I know...") 3 of us in the hangar had lost props in flight, and not one of us was complaining about the mayday calls that we had made.
The Mayday call gets a bit of peace on the line, and gets some attention to what the guys are going to come up with next, is is supposed to.
As far as controllability checks go, they were -1 and NATOPS standard procedures, seeing is nice but the plane will talk to the driver and suggest a course of action if they have the sense to listen and apply simple "CDF" to the matter at hand.
Regarding the Mayday call, I agree it's quite appropriate for the lead to call Mayday on behalf of both aircraft. But in this case the focus seemed to be almost entirely on the downed aircraft. I could be wrong, but Melbourne Control advised Moorabbin of a possible emergency. No mention of Avalon as an option when there was a possibility of a damaged aircraft flying over built up areas for either Moorabbin or Essendon. I'm just saying perhaps it would have been a good idea to include Avalon as an alternative. Not sure why so many on the forum seem to have issues with keeping all options open.