Lockhart Crash
Archie Bargy, yes I know what the register says. What is aircraft in the photo link I referred to?
CC
CC
The Navajo was struck off the register sometime around 2006 (there is a photo of in on A-net in a rather derelict state at that time).
Not sure when the 404 was exported to Australia, probably about 15 years ago. It was previously P2-ALG ex Airlink PNG. It’s ex sister PNG ship P2-ALK is now at the Goroka Aero Club in the kids playground.
Condolences to everyone effected by this tragedy. It’s very sad and hopefully we will all be able to learn from this accident.
Condolences to everyone effected by this tragedy. It’s very sad and hopefully we will all be able to learn from this accident.
Last edited by Duck Pilot; 11th Mar 2020 at 19:50.
Latest Weather Observations Lockhart River
For those wondering, BOM reports wind Calm at 0900 with maybe 2mm max within an hour either side.
Condolences to all involved.
For those wondering, BOM reports wind Calm at 0900 with maybe 2mm max within an hour either side.
Condolences to all involved.
Police believe the aircraft crashed into sand dunes as wild weather including monsoonal rain and high winds whipped the region.
In all fairness that was from the Superintendent they were interviewing and conditions around the area don't look great really and he had probably only been barely briefed by his own people. Also in regards to media using a photo of OZO from a previous life, I mean really people? Is this what we're going to get hung up on?
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Aus
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lockhart River Mayor said ... It is a very difficult place to fly into. (ABC News)
FWIW he corroborated the police’s account
This morning was terrible weather — we had a low over the top of Lockhart River and it poured down for hours
If he is referring to flying in monsoon season well that’s no different to the rest of the region. That’s a PIC call.
To end up in the sand dunes where they did, would potentially indicate they were on Base for 30.
The wind was dead and showers recorded within the previous window was indicative of clouds. However, IMC seems to be a given going off that forecast.
Look, I’m not claiming it’s IMC, the forecast essentially gives us that data, I’m not claiming it engineering. It could be anything. But, if it’s IMC, we have an issue here, a growing problem trending in the wrong direction.
Last edited by PoppaJo; 11th Mar 2020 at 21:32.
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Latest Weather Observations Lockhart River
For those wondering, BOM reports wind Calm at 0900 with maybe 2mm max within an hour either side.
Condolences to all involved.
For those wondering, BOM reports wind Calm at 0900 with maybe 2mm max within an hour either side.
Condolences to all involved.
Another sad day and my thoughts go to all those impacted.
Last edited by LeanOfPeak; 12th Mar 2020 at 02:18.
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Victoria
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IFR into terrain
Came across to see what the brains trust have said..
Same old same old.
Experienced pilot
Bad Weather
Get home itis
What went wrong
We will hear in a year or so.
And the world goes on.
Evidence everywhere of slack training performance and experience.
Despite CASA hammering Human Condition at the seminars.
If you dont believe just check out the flight radar tracks of those trainees shooting the YHML NDB approach and compare it with the plate!
truncated half baked approaches that would not pass a test and would be a fail.
so where has the standard gone with all you ifr jocks?
Qualified with your low level annual circling approach and not broken the minima lately?
We are still shaken by Mangalore and every time death rate seems to go up.
Like with the two Angel Flight crashes in my region all we get is seminars saying DONT!
Same old same old.
Experienced pilot
Bad Weather
Get home itis
What went wrong
We will hear in a year or so.
And the world goes on.
Evidence everywhere of slack training performance and experience.
Despite CASA hammering Human Condition at the seminars.
If you dont believe just check out the flight radar tracks of those trainees shooting the YHML NDB approach and compare it with the plate!
truncated half baked approaches that would not pass a test and would be a fail.
so where has the standard gone with all you ifr jocks?
Qualified with your low level annual circling approach and not broken the minima lately?
We are still shaken by Mangalore and every time death rate seems to go up.
Like with the two Angel Flight crashes in my region all we get is seminars saying DONT!
Last edited by ZAZ; 12th Mar 2020 at 01:17.
Haven't flown GA for yonks. But as a poorly paid pilot who was always afraid for the longevity of his job, I can tell you there was a strong imperative to "Git her done, boy". Upgrades onto better aircraft and better assignments were rewards handed out to those who went that "extra mile".
And at the end of the day, there was never anyone there to stick up for you when you decided to divert or take the safer and inevitably more expensive or inconvenient option. Everyone from the passengers to management hated you and marked you down as being an inferior pilot.
I remain thankful for one small mercy - at least back then we never had the internet with its seemingly unlimited supply of been-nowhere, done-nothing, know-alls.
And at the end of the day, there was never anyone there to stick up for you when you decided to divert or take the safer and inevitably more expensive or inconvenient option. Everyone from the passengers to management hated you and marked you down as being an inferior pilot.
I remain thankful for one small mercy - at least back then we never had the internet with its seemingly unlimited supply of been-nowhere, done-nothing, know-alls.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: oz
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not where I worked in GA Lucille, company stuck up for safe pilots 100% of the time. (As did majority of the competition) What’s more, anyone who did try to go the “extra mile” in a dodgy, half arsed fashion, would certainly have to worry about longevity. There were a few.
Despite CASA hammering Human Condition at the seminars.
I have seen no evidence of CASA "hammering" Human Factors. In any case a lot of this stuff is online nowadays
Last edited by Centaurus; 12th Mar 2020 at 06:25.
I understand there is no camera or Unicom at the airport to provide information on local conditions.
Just like Lord Howe where the local bloke Clive Wilson has been prevented from giving local weather!
Just like Lord Howe where the local bloke Clive Wilson has been prevented from giving local weather!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Permanently lost
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dick, what about WAAS? What price having vertical guidance on a RNAV approach but the self-proclaimed safety experts don't seem to think it necessary. Info (visual or voice) on local conditions is fine but I would much rather vertical guidance than what prevails today.
From the public media announcements I am led to think this aircraft had already made two unsuccessful attempts at landing (presumably RNAV R30) and crashed at about 3.3 nm short of the runway on the third approach. It is known from experience that the chance of a crash increases with the number of approaches made. That is why some airlines forbid flight crew from commencing an approach if the conditions are less than the minima. With WAAS (or whatever it is called these days) that minima can be much lower than our RNAV approaches. From videos posted on-line from GA pilots in the USA their minima with vertical guidance are approaching that of an ILS.
It is time we moved from the dark ages in Australia. There is a wealth of aviation advances around the world that we are ignoring with fatal results.
From the public media announcements I am led to think this aircraft had already made two unsuccessful attempts at landing (presumably RNAV R30) and crashed at about 3.3 nm short of the runway on the third approach. It is known from experience that the chance of a crash increases with the number of approaches made. That is why some airlines forbid flight crew from commencing an approach if the conditions are less than the minima. With WAAS (or whatever it is called these days) that minima can be much lower than our RNAV approaches. From videos posted on-line from GA pilots in the USA their minima with vertical guidance are approaching that of an ILS.
It is time we moved from the dark ages in Australia. There is a wealth of aviation advances around the world that we are ignoring with fatal results.
I’m happy to get some cameras up there. Depending on what equipment is already there, it could cost less than $150 for two good ones. I do my best but we put cameras where they are asked for and there’s only enough hours in the day to chase up airport operators. It’s sad to think that cameras there may have averted this tragedy. I’d like to think that they have already saved lives but as you know it’s impossible to ever find out!
I’m not sure what value a camera would have in preventing this accident. The PIC was by definition a professional pilot and the expectation is that he should give it a go unless there was good reason not to. He was IFR rated for a reason.
My experience of Lockhart over 3 years is that it’s tropical and if you don’t like the weather wait 30 mins.
Cameras have their usefulness in determining VFR conditions and should be encouraged in that context. Their usefulness is limited in determining whether the cloud is above or below IFR RNAV minima.
The METAR. AWIS and talking to UNICOM operator are many many times more useful than a webcam image
My experience of Lockhart over 3 years is that it’s tropical and if you don’t like the weather wait 30 mins.
Cameras have their usefulness in determining VFR conditions and should be encouraged in that context. Their usefulness is limited in determining whether the cloud is above or below IFR RNAV minima.
The METAR. AWIS and talking to UNICOM operator are many many times more useful than a webcam image
Haven't flown GA for yonks. But as a poorly paid pilot who was always afraid for the longevity of his job, I can tell you there was a strong imperative to "Git her done, boy". Upgrades onto better aircraft and better assignments were rewards handed out to those who went that "extra mile".
And at the end of the day, there was never anyone there to stick up for you when you decided to divert or take the safer and inevitably more expensive or inconvenient option. Everyone from the passengers to management hated you and marked you down as being an inferior pilot.
I remain thankful for one small mercy - at least back then we never had the internet with its seemingly unlimited supply of been-nowhere, done-nothing, know-alls.
And at the end of the day, there was never anyone there to stick up for you when you decided to divert or take the safer and inevitably more expensive or inconvenient option. Everyone from the passengers to management hated you and marked you down as being an inferior pilot.
I remain thankful for one small mercy - at least back then we never had the internet with its seemingly unlimited supply of been-nowhere, done-nothing, know-alls.