Australian Space Agency? Oh No!
Hmmm... not long ago there were some chaps in Toowoomba that built an international airport... obviously it were an initiative of the government department of Australian Airport Development..
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Yep - met the Wagners?
Lawyer mate of mine I had lunch with last week has - and by all accounts they don't whinge or take no for an answer either - just get on and do it.
Lawyer mate of mine I had lunch with last week has - and by all accounts they don't whinge or take no for an answer either - just get on and do it.
Thread Starter
Tartare, so I see you already have your interests to protect...
....And you bleat about the need for a local industry because of "security" concerns.
You call me a "whiner and complainer."
When it comes to the demonstrated failure of Australian Government bureaucracy to deliver any technology based project on time, on budget and with all deliverables attached, I am indeed a "whiner and complainer" because the Australian bureaucracy has demonstrably failed to deliver time and time again and it has cost taxpayers billions of dollars.
I am not being a defeatist whinger when I say that you and your ilk do not deserve another chance to squander billions of taxpayer dollars on another technological project that has zero chance of success with you and your bureaucratic mates running it.
As for "security" even the Americans are using Russian launch vehicles at the moment, Spacex and Dragon are on the point of offering launch services so there is no need to develop indigenous rocket systems at simply massive costs and certainly not using a bureaucratic model.
Yes, we need a space policy - buy commercial services from the cheapest source using a market based model. Not, I repeat not, using the failed bureaucratic model that gave us the NBN and Seasprite.
To put that another way, you are very enthusiastic about a space policy - provided the poor taxpayer is paying for it!
As for pissing competitions, I've worked in airlines, aerospace, government and technology commercialisation and I know what it costs to roll your own. Buy stuff and services off the shelf! The last thing we need is an Australian space industry controlled by Canberra and paid for by tax dollars.
....And you bleat about the need for a local industry because of "security" concerns.
You call me a "whiner and complainer."
When it comes to the demonstrated failure of Australian Government bureaucracy to deliver any technology based project on time, on budget and with all deliverables attached, I am indeed a "whiner and complainer" because the Australian bureaucracy has demonstrably failed to deliver time and time again and it has cost taxpayers billions of dollars.
I am not being a defeatist whinger when I say that you and your ilk do not deserve another chance to squander billions of taxpayer dollars on another technological project that has zero chance of success with you and your bureaucratic mates running it.
As for "security" even the Americans are using Russian launch vehicles at the moment, Spacex and Dragon are on the point of offering launch services so there is no need to develop indigenous rocket systems at simply massive costs and certainly not using a bureaucratic model.
Yes, we need a space policy - buy commercial services from the cheapest source using a market based model. Not, I repeat not, using the failed bureaucratic model that gave us the NBN and Seasprite.
To put that another way, you are very enthusiastic about a space policy - provided the poor taxpayer is paying for it!
As for pissing competitions, I've worked in airlines, aerospace, government and technology commercialisation and I know what it costs to roll your own. Buy stuff and services off the shelf! The last thing we need is an Australian space industry controlled by Canberra and paid for by tax dollars.
Just back from visiting my sinister bureaucratic friends. 
Who said anything about paid for by taxpayer dollars my ironically handled matey?
Or ignoring COTS technologies?
My point is be careful whose shelf you buy off.
Sorry about the pissing competition but it's a fact.
You still haven't told me what you're doing to change what you complain so vociferously about, aside from whining and making up your mind before anything's happened.
Maybe a light regulatory touch Federal organisation to boost investment, encourage technology transfer and provide a small degree of industry assistance would be a good thing?
Ever considered that?
Honestly - fish in a barrel...!
Who said anything about paid for by taxpayer dollars my ironically handled matey?
Or ignoring COTS technologies?
My point is be careful whose shelf you buy off.
Sorry about the pissing competition but it's a fact.
You still haven't told me what you're doing to change what you complain so vociferously about, aside from whining and making up your mind before anything's happened.
Maybe a light regulatory touch Federal organisation to boost investment, encourage technology transfer and provide a small degree of industry assistance would be a good thing?
Ever considered that?
Honestly - fish in a barrel...!
Just back from visiting my sinister bureaucratic friends.
Who said anything about paid for by taxpayer dollars my ironically handled matey?
Or ignoring COTS technologies?
My point is be careful whose shelf you buy off.
Sorry about the pissing competition but it's a fact.
You still haven't told me what you're doing to change what you complain so vociferously about, aside from whining and making up your mind before anything's happened.
Maybe a light regulatory touch Federal organisation to boost investment, encourage technology transfer and provide a small degree of industry assistance would be a good thing?
Ever considered that?
Honestly - fish in a barrel...!
Who said anything about paid for by taxpayer dollars my ironically handled matey?
Or ignoring COTS technologies?
My point is be careful whose shelf you buy off.
Sorry about the pissing competition but it's a fact.
You still haven't told me what you're doing to change what you complain so vociferously about, aside from whining and making up your mind before anything's happened.
Maybe a light regulatory touch Federal organisation to boost investment, encourage technology transfer and provide a small degree of industry assistance would be a good thing?
Ever considered that?
Honestly - fish in a barrel...!
Last edited by extralite; 30th Sep 2017 at 11:39.
Thread Starter
Tartare:
Yes, I've considered that and discarded it. What you are suggesting is that the Federal Government only interfere "a little bit", sounds reasonable, but it isn't. It's like being a little bit pregnant.
Once the space bureaucracy is allowed to be born, its first imperative is to survive and grow.
"boost investment"? The last time the government dabbled in encouraging private sector high technology investment I had to unwind $60 million in toxic tax avoidance R & D syndicates.
"Encourage technology transfer and provide a small degree of industry assistance"? This inevitably involves picking winners and losers and public servants are notoriously at least as bad as the private sector in doing that.
Furthermore, the process distorts the industry and encourages mediocrity because the really "out there' projects are not funded because they are either unfashionable or politically incorrect.
For example lets say we have two Cubesat projects and we can fund only one. The first Cubesat project maps endangered species habitat in the tropics, the second maps possible undersea oil deposits. Guess which one gets funded?
Furthermore, the local space industry, if you can call it that, is internationally focussed and internationally competitive by definition. Once we add an Australian dimension, via a Canberra space office, we will lose that focus and that alone will harm the industry.
Tartare, don't you understand? "Utopia" and "Yes Minister' are accurate depictions of the way Canberra works. Australia would be better off if the money earmarked for a space office was spent on booze and prostitutes rather than industry "assistance'
Maybe a light regulatory touch Federal organisation to boost investment, encourage technology transfer and provide a small degree of industry assistance would be a good thing?
Ever considered that?
Ever considered that?
Once the space bureaucracy is allowed to be born, its first imperative is to survive and grow.
"boost investment"? The last time the government dabbled in encouraging private sector high technology investment I had to unwind $60 million in toxic tax avoidance R & D syndicates.
"Encourage technology transfer and provide a small degree of industry assistance"? This inevitably involves picking winners and losers and public servants are notoriously at least as bad as the private sector in doing that.
Furthermore, the process distorts the industry and encourages mediocrity because the really "out there' projects are not funded because they are either unfashionable or politically incorrect.
For example lets say we have two Cubesat projects and we can fund only one. The first Cubesat project maps endangered species habitat in the tropics, the second maps possible undersea oil deposits. Guess which one gets funded?
Furthermore, the local space industry, if you can call it that, is internationally focussed and internationally competitive by definition. Once we add an Australian dimension, via a Canberra space office, we will lose that focus and that alone will harm the industry.
Tartare, don't you understand? "Utopia" and "Yes Minister' are accurate depictions of the way Canberra works. Australia would be better off if the money earmarked for a space office was spent on booze and prostitutes rather than industry "assistance'
You had to unwind $60m on toxic tax avoidance????
I find that hard to believe.
The tenor of your posts on this topic and many others, sound much more like a disgruntled old school Qantas union organiser - than some sort of power broking man of influence.
Are you on any national industry forums?
A trusted advisor of any MPs or Ministers?
Actually involved in getting anything done?
Yes we all watch and laugh at Untopia.
But do you actually even know your way around Canberra?
I doubt it.
I note you say you used to work in the fields you claim to.
That's probably a good thing.
With your attitude - we're all better off with you on the sidelines - while the rest of us get on with it.
Keep bleating to an empty gallery mate... you don't fool me.
I find that hard to believe.
The tenor of your posts on this topic and many others, sound much more like a disgruntled old school Qantas union organiser - than some sort of power broking man of influence.
Are you on any national industry forums?
A trusted advisor of any MPs or Ministers?
Actually involved in getting anything done?
Yes we all watch and laugh at Untopia.
But do you actually even know your way around Canberra?
I doubt it.
I note you say you used to work in the fields you claim to.
That's probably a good thing.
With your attitude - we're all better off with you on the sidelines - while the rest of us get on with it.
Keep bleating to an empty gallery mate... you don't fool me.
I'm meeting the Director of Strategy and his Policy Advisor from the Leader's Office of a major political party, one on one, to start to get major change underway in our sector.
Easy as..' shooting fish in a barrel..' gets a mention... yep exactly ..!
Bureaucrats and politicians can waste taxpayers money easier than that !!
And without tangible results either.
Bureaucrats and politicians can waste taxpayers money easier than that !!
And without tangible results either.
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The problem with Canberra is that they are simply the wrong people for this job and should stick with postal surveys for whatever...
Many of these departments put value in silly positions like "Director of Advertising" when advertising is not their core business. This is often the corporate solution to covering up their lack of subject matter expertise on their own brief. But can you blame them though as most of them were never interested in the final frontier but rather more interested in their pot plants getting enough water at home.
Many of these departments put value in silly positions like "Director of Advertising" when advertising is not their core business. This is often the corporate solution to covering up their lack of subject matter expertise on their own brief. But can you blame them though as most of them were never interested in the final frontier but rather more interested in their pot plants getting enough water at home.
Last edited by cattletruck; 1st Oct 2017 at 12:10.
Just started looking at the Utopia nation building series. Sorta funny. Top of the Hillside Primary School ideas list is space, next idea is a bridge to Tasmania.....
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Thread Starter
Tartare:
Tartare, I detect that you have swelled head syndrome. The cure is a draft of disappointment and a cynicism injection. To be fair, I was once like that too, but I'm old and retired now.
To address your points:
National Forums? Trusted advisor to MP's and Ministers? Been there, done that in the field of innovation and technology commercialisation from about 1994 - 2006. I was one of a small invited group that was repeatedly consulted in the development of the Howard Governments innovation agenda a year before the set piece conference and announcement. Industry associations? I built one from scratch for the Victorian Government.
I thus know what it is like to have public servants fawning on you and writing down your every word as if it was one of the ten commandments. Ministers and MP's? I have been an acquaintance of a few, now mostly dead. On nodding terms with Fraser and Peacock. Worked for two state government Ministers.
Lesson for you: Do not for a minute think that the public servants, advisors, Ministers, etc. have the slightest interest in you and your ideas. They don't - except so far as you can help advance their careers. The clown who professes to you today how fascinated they are by your descriptive and witty exposition on space policy will tomorrow say the same thing to a manufacturer of marine anchor winches. That is the nature of the political beast. They do this to guys like you all the time. Did you get promised a seat on an Advisory Board yet?
Do not let your head swell any more then it already obviously has. The politicians and public servants will jettison you for the next big thing in a heartbeat when they are done with you.
Know my way around Canberra? Of course - when I worked. Old parliament house with Michelle Grattan chain smoking in her tiny office in the attic. "grey sponge" (Russell Offices to you), Department of industry or whatever it was called then. The High Court Cafe had the best and cheapest food with a great view (now sadly closed to the public - terrorism). But most importantly, I knew who to ring if I needed something.
Lesson for you: If you are not a public servant you are still on the outer.
$60 million in toxic tax avoidance?
Yes. I only had 6 X $10 million R&D tax concession syndicates to wind up. Me. Personally. I think I may have contracted PTSD from dealing with Macquarie and BT. I say "only" because there were over 100 of these toxic tax avoidance schemes across Australias Universities based on a perversion of the 150% R&D tax rebate. I can explain how they worked if you want. They were not only financially toxic to the taxpayer, but they produced almost no worthwhile R&D either.
Variations of the same schemes are obviously still around today:
Millions rorted from government R&D scheme
Do I want to "get things done"? Not really. Why am I so 'negative'? Experience.
What I would like to do is save you and your friends from a wild goose chase.
You had to unwind $60m on toxic tax avoidance????
I find that hard to believe.
The tenor of your posts on this topic and many others, sound much more like a disgruntled old school Qantas union organiser - than some sort of power broking man of influence.
Are you on any national industry forums?
A trusted advisor of any MPs or Ministers?
Actually involved in getting anything done?
Yes we all watch and laugh at Untopia.
But do you actually even know your way around Canberra?
I doubt it.
I note you say you used to work in the fields you claim to.
That's probably a good thing.
With your attitude - we're all better off with you on the sidelines - while the rest of us get on with it.
Keep bleating to an empty gallery mate... you don't fool me.
I find that hard to believe.
The tenor of your posts on this topic and many others, sound much more like a disgruntled old school Qantas union organiser - than some sort of power broking man of influence.
Are you on any national industry forums?
A trusted advisor of any MPs or Ministers?
Actually involved in getting anything done?
Yes we all watch and laugh at Untopia.
But do you actually even know your way around Canberra?
I doubt it.
I note you say you used to work in the fields you claim to.
That's probably a good thing.
With your attitude - we're all better off with you on the sidelines - while the rest of us get on with it.
Keep bleating to an empty gallery mate... you don't fool me.
To address your points:
National Forums? Trusted advisor to MP's and Ministers? Been there, done that in the field of innovation and technology commercialisation from about 1994 - 2006. I was one of a small invited group that was repeatedly consulted in the development of the Howard Governments innovation agenda a year before the set piece conference and announcement. Industry associations? I built one from scratch for the Victorian Government.
I thus know what it is like to have public servants fawning on you and writing down your every word as if it was one of the ten commandments. Ministers and MP's? I have been an acquaintance of a few, now mostly dead. On nodding terms with Fraser and Peacock. Worked for two state government Ministers.
Lesson for you: Do not for a minute think that the public servants, advisors, Ministers, etc. have the slightest interest in you and your ideas. They don't - except so far as you can help advance their careers. The clown who professes to you today how fascinated they are by your descriptive and witty exposition on space policy will tomorrow say the same thing to a manufacturer of marine anchor winches. That is the nature of the political beast. They do this to guys like you all the time. Did you get promised a seat on an Advisory Board yet?
Do not let your head swell any more then it already obviously has. The politicians and public servants will jettison you for the next big thing in a heartbeat when they are done with you.
Know my way around Canberra? Of course - when I worked. Old parliament house with Michelle Grattan chain smoking in her tiny office in the attic. "grey sponge" (Russell Offices to you), Department of industry or whatever it was called then. The High Court Cafe had the best and cheapest food with a great view (now sadly closed to the public - terrorism). But most importantly, I knew who to ring if I needed something.
Lesson for you: If you are not a public servant you are still on the outer.
$60 million in toxic tax avoidance?
Yes. I only had 6 X $10 million R&D tax concession syndicates to wind up. Me. Personally. I think I may have contracted PTSD from dealing with Macquarie and BT. I say "only" because there were over 100 of these toxic tax avoidance schemes across Australias Universities based on a perversion of the 150% R&D tax rebate. I can explain how they worked if you want. They were not only financially toxic to the taxpayer, but they produced almost no worthwhile R&D either.
Variations of the same schemes are obviously still around today:
Millions rorted from government R&D scheme
Do I want to "get things done"? Not really. Why am I so 'negative'? Experience.
What I would like to do is save you and your friends from a wild goose chase.
Thank you for the warning.
And for adding some interesting detail; but you make an assumption that I hear often.
You make the statement that politicians are only interested in you if you can help advance their careers?
It’s actually much more subtle than that, although one happens to be a corollary of the other - but confuse the two and you run the risk of making many tactical government relations mistakes.
What they’re interested in - is votes.
So - when you rock up from the Society of Aviation Engineers, they take a good look at how many votes you command.
None?
When you walk out the door, high fiving your mates, after it slams you’re nicknamed No Votes - and suddenly it gets kinda hard to get time in diaries in future.
On the contrary however, are organisations that command large voting blocs, especially those that are very outspoken and have a large media share of voice.
When they visit - advisers - and politicians very much do sit up and take notice.
Sphincters tighten.
How much damage can you do them?
Are you likely to be a treacherous little **** and run down the corridor to the Oppos or anyone else and conspire to make trouble?
How might the Oppos play and respond to this?
Are there votes in what you’re proposing? How much political capital will it cost them and where?
Where are they in the cycle?
Conversely - they will also calculate if a sector is so on the nose to the point that they can take you on regardless of power and influence - witness the banks getting slapped around recently. Nows there’s a bunch of muppets who thought they could get away with anything.
Surprisingly for some - the left are ten times more vindictive than the right, and believe me, they will remember when you first visited - and also in minute detail, if and when you crossed them.
Now - am I a lobbyist?
No.
Fat-headed? Matter of opinion, and you’re entitled to yours. But here are the facts - Again if you want to see it as a pissing contest, up to you.
I’m actually directly employed by a large, politically astute organisation that represents nearly 30,000 highly paid professionals across Australia and New Zealand. It’s members are regularly covered in national media, and are often highly critical of the Government. We’re wealthy and command large voting blocs in Australia and New Zealand, and enjoy high levels of trust as an occupation across both communities. Our members are seen by the public as experts in their field.
In 2013 - 14 expenditure in my overall broader sector totalled $155 billion, that’s billion with a B.
It is a byzantinely complex political maze of a field to work in; accurately encapsulating and representing the views of different factions within my own organisation alone is tricky enough.
Sure - we can all drop names like you dropped Gratts, and a few Ministers you were on nodding terms with a decade ago. I deal in currency, and enjoy working with Federally influential factional warlords (I love that term) like N.C. and M.P. (if you know your politics you’ll have an idea of who I’m talking about. They pull the real strings). A current influential Senator acted as an advisor to us two year ago.
I’ve worked in the media in three countries, and my wife is currently a working broadcaster. We don’t just count current broadcasters and print journos as contacts - they’re personal acquaintances. Like you, I’ve worked in aerospace, specifically airlines, and like you I’m a pilot.
In recent years, I was fascinated to be privvy to direct conversations with a very senior gentleman know who I’ll name by initials M.P. , to help very rapidly solve a hastily made major Federal public policy commitment. Done pretty much on a handshake, and we had 14 people on an Albert within a week to start sorting it out.
I can’t really say much more about that little project, but the resulting Federal `initiatives’ became one of the most controversial of the last three administrations and may actually result in a Royal Commission one day.
I’ve attended several Senate estimates - and sat a row or two behind the poor saps who had to answer the questions - having helped them prepare.
A lot of my dealings are actually with the senior bureaucrats rather than the politicians.
You’ve dealt with Macbank and BT? Well then we do have something in common. My first encounter with those execrable little industrial scale real estate salesmen was closing a $500 million deal in 2011. I utterly despise them and would regulate the investment banking sector into next week if I ever had the chance.
You’d walk past me in the street and never know me - and that’s actually the way I like it.
So - with respect - you’re not saving me or my friends from anything we don’t already understand very well indeed.
What I do really dislike however is negativity founded on a somewhat shaky premise.I still think an ARSE or ASA or whatever they want to call a Space Agency will be a good thing.
It’ll probably have a pretty small budget, and be little more than an industry booster - and that can’t hurt.
Personally, I’m happy to see them give it a shot.
And for adding some interesting detail; but you make an assumption that I hear often.
You make the statement that politicians are only interested in you if you can help advance their careers?
It’s actually much more subtle than that, although one happens to be a corollary of the other - but confuse the two and you run the risk of making many tactical government relations mistakes.
What they’re interested in - is votes.
So - when you rock up from the Society of Aviation Engineers, they take a good look at how many votes you command.
None?
When you walk out the door, high fiving your mates, after it slams you’re nicknamed No Votes - and suddenly it gets kinda hard to get time in diaries in future.
On the contrary however, are organisations that command large voting blocs, especially those that are very outspoken and have a large media share of voice.
When they visit - advisers - and politicians very much do sit up and take notice.
Sphincters tighten.
How much damage can you do them?
Are you likely to be a treacherous little **** and run down the corridor to the Oppos or anyone else and conspire to make trouble?
How might the Oppos play and respond to this?
Are there votes in what you’re proposing? How much political capital will it cost them and where?
Where are they in the cycle?
Conversely - they will also calculate if a sector is so on the nose to the point that they can take you on regardless of power and influence - witness the banks getting slapped around recently. Nows there’s a bunch of muppets who thought they could get away with anything.
Surprisingly for some - the left are ten times more vindictive than the right, and believe me, they will remember when you first visited - and also in minute detail, if and when you crossed them.
Now - am I a lobbyist?
No.
Fat-headed? Matter of opinion, and you’re entitled to yours. But here are the facts - Again if you want to see it as a pissing contest, up to you.
I’m actually directly employed by a large, politically astute organisation that represents nearly 30,000 highly paid professionals across Australia and New Zealand. It’s members are regularly covered in national media, and are often highly critical of the Government. We’re wealthy and command large voting blocs in Australia and New Zealand, and enjoy high levels of trust as an occupation across both communities. Our members are seen by the public as experts in their field.
In 2013 - 14 expenditure in my overall broader sector totalled $155 billion, that’s billion with a B.
It is a byzantinely complex political maze of a field to work in; accurately encapsulating and representing the views of different factions within my own organisation alone is tricky enough.
Sure - we can all drop names like you dropped Gratts, and a few Ministers you were on nodding terms with a decade ago. I deal in currency, and enjoy working with Federally influential factional warlords (I love that term) like N.C. and M.P. (if you know your politics you’ll have an idea of who I’m talking about. They pull the real strings). A current influential Senator acted as an advisor to us two year ago.
I’ve worked in the media in three countries, and my wife is currently a working broadcaster. We don’t just count current broadcasters and print journos as contacts - they’re personal acquaintances. Like you, I’ve worked in aerospace, specifically airlines, and like you I’m a pilot.
In recent years, I was fascinated to be privvy to direct conversations with a very senior gentleman know who I’ll name by initials M.P. , to help very rapidly solve a hastily made major Federal public policy commitment. Done pretty much on a handshake, and we had 14 people on an Albert within a week to start sorting it out.
I can’t really say much more about that little project, but the resulting Federal `initiatives’ became one of the most controversial of the last three administrations and may actually result in a Royal Commission one day.
I’ve attended several Senate estimates - and sat a row or two behind the poor saps who had to answer the questions - having helped them prepare.
A lot of my dealings are actually with the senior bureaucrats rather than the politicians.
You’ve dealt with Macbank and BT? Well then we do have something in common. My first encounter with those execrable little industrial scale real estate salesmen was closing a $500 million deal in 2011. I utterly despise them and would regulate the investment banking sector into next week if I ever had the chance.
You’d walk past me in the street and never know me - and that’s actually the way I like it.
So - with respect - you’re not saving me or my friends from anything we don’t already understand very well indeed.
What I do really dislike however is negativity founded on a somewhat shaky premise.I still think an ARSE or ASA or whatever they want to call a Space Agency will be a good thing.
It’ll probably have a pretty small budget, and be little more than an industry booster - and that can’t hurt.
Personally, I’m happy to see them give it a shot.
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Jeez, this Tartare bloke sounds like a right Tartare....
Given the willy waving between him and Sunny I sort of have to wonder
why this obviously superior person is messing about conferring his vast knowledge and wisdom on a bunch of amateur aviators who are very unlikely to have the wherewithal to do much more than dream a dream, or watch star wars movies.
Tartare old mate, as a kid "Biggles" was my hero, man I so wanted to be him.
Guess your the modern equivalent, except old age has conferred some wisdom. I know an imagined ten inches is really five in the willy waving competition.
Given the willy waving between him and Sunny I sort of have to wonder
why this obviously superior person is messing about conferring his vast knowledge and wisdom on a bunch of amateur aviators who are very unlikely to have the wherewithal to do much more than dream a dream, or watch star wars movies.
Tartare old mate, as a kid "Biggles" was my hero, man I so wanted to be him.
Guess your the modern equivalent, except old age has conferred some wisdom. I know an imagined ten inches is really five in the willy waving competition.
The test is always the extent of personal skin in the game.
So, tartare, how many of your own dollars are at risk on this project?
My olfactory sense may be discombobulated because of the onset of the hay fever season, but I'm getting the whiff of an ex-ADF, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, hot-shot who's been poached by one of the gun-runners or tech-selling multi-national snake oil sales companies who have a very long and successful history of separating Australian taxpayer patsies from their hard-earned.
Who pays your salary, tartare?
So, tartare, how many of your own dollars are at risk on this project?
My olfactory sense may be discombobulated because of the onset of the hay fever season, but I'm getting the whiff of an ex-ADF, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, hot-shot who's been poached by one of the gun-runners or tech-selling multi-national snake oil sales companies who have a very long and successful history of separating Australian taxpayer patsies from their hard-earned.
Who pays your salary, tartare?
I'm hazarding a guess at the AMA. No one else knows how to spend the public's money like the medical profession (155 billion - with a B)
Wonder what One Nation thinks of our 'Utopia' space program...
"...But of most concern to Ms Palaszczuk is One Nation's primary vote figure of 18.1 per cent..."
Palaszczuk warning on One Nation gains
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"...But of most concern to Ms Palaszczuk is One Nation's primary vote figure of 18.1 per cent..."
Palaszczuk warning on One Nation gains
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Thread Starter
Traffic:
I think I can guess. Given his employment, his attitude is understandable.
Unfortunately prior Australian experience of Government instigated technology programs is that they are a disaster for the Australian economy. The latest being the NBN.
I'm hazarding a guess at the AMA. No one else knows how to spend the public's money like the medical profession (155 billion - with a B)
Unfortunately prior Australian experience of Government instigated technology programs is that they are a disaster for the Australian economy. The latest being the NBN.
Sorry Lead - do have the white shirt, blue trousers and shiny black shoes.
But what hair is left is grey, so not young - and not ADF or any other defence force (although I do admire those that fly understandably) - and you would have found me somewhere in the crowd with my lad at the ADFA open day recently.
Willy waving - whatever guys. Just a few stories from the sharp end.
I could tell you some real jaw droppers, but clearly I'll just piss you all off.
Nope - don't regard you all as poor little aviators at all... I'm one of you... another oik going to work among the crowds in Sydney.
Just don't like complainers - that's all.
But what hair is left is grey, so not young - and not ADF or any other defence force (although I do admire those that fly understandably) - and you would have found me somewhere in the crowd with my lad at the ADFA open day recently.
Willy waving - whatever guys. Just a few stories from the sharp end.
I could tell you some real jaw droppers, but clearly I'll just piss you all off.
Nope - don't regard you all as poor little aviators at all... I'm one of you... another oik going to work among the crowds in Sydney.
Just don't like complainers - that's all.