Vintage biplane loses propeller mid flight
Thread Starter
Vintage biplane loses propeller mid flight
Vintage biplane loses propeller mid-flight | Flight Safety Australia
Happened back in July. Just saw it on the FB CASA website. Apologies if there is a previous thread on it.
DF.
Happened back in July. Just saw it on the FB CASA website. Apologies if there is a previous thread on it.
DF.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Dog House
Age: 49
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aviate, Navigate and then Communicate to ATC.
"However, the crash investigator also asserted that ‘alerting air traffic control as emergencies arise enables them to provide the necessary and appropriate assistance."
What were ATC going to do, call "Dial a prop" or move the rocks?
"However, the crash investigator also asserted that ‘alerting air traffic control as emergencies arise enables them to provide the necessary and appropriate assistance."
What were ATC going to do, call "Dial a prop" or move the rocks?
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm happy that no birds were hurt in this incident.
The damage shows an un-torqued propeller or one not torqued to take into effect climatic influences. I doubt load had any bearing on the outcome.
The damage shows an un-torqued propeller or one not torqued to take into effect climatic influences. I doubt load had any bearing on the outcome.
Band A Lot, I'm sure they meant that in a general sense as well as in regards to this incident, but, no they couldn't magically make a new prop appear or tell the old one it's doing the wrong thing and should go back from whence it came, they couldn't organise to have the patch of land nearby be covered in big fluffy chunks of foam either.
What they COULD do is get emergency services moving to assist as soon as possible, they could suggest potential landing areas, they can assist in broadcasting on the area frequency to clear aircraft from your path or if nothing else a soothing voice to help a Pilot maintain their calm, I'm sure they've been trained to do exactly that sort of thing to assist in a situation, get them focused on the task at hand if they sound overwhelmed or unsure.
The point being is that he successfully Aviated (Although maybe not entirely successful if the Wooden Prop wasn't really appropriate for the operation, not really his fault though), he successfully Navigated in that he made his way back and had a backup plan noting the area around him and other areas he could get to but IMHO he did not successfully Communicate, if he noted that the Aircraft was no longer performing and that a return to base was necessary then he would have been better advising ATC that he was experiencing Engine Problems and returning to base, most likely in the form of a PAN PAN.
None of this is to try and have a go at the guy, in the end he experienced a rather unusual Prop Failure, something that I'm fairly sure neither He nor anyone else is specifically trained for (Yes, we're trained for engine failures and partial engine failures but how many have ever really gone through this specific scenario?) and in the end he used his training and made sound decisions that lead to Himself and his Passenger walking away, but as with all incidents there are lesson to be learnt and that's part of what the Crash Investigators are meant to do and this was one lesson that others could learn.
What they COULD do is get emergency services moving to assist as soon as possible, they could suggest potential landing areas, they can assist in broadcasting on the area frequency to clear aircraft from your path or if nothing else a soothing voice to help a Pilot maintain their calm, I'm sure they've been trained to do exactly that sort of thing to assist in a situation, get them focused on the task at hand if they sound overwhelmed or unsure.
The point being is that he successfully Aviated (Although maybe not entirely successful if the Wooden Prop wasn't really appropriate for the operation, not really his fault though), he successfully Navigated in that he made his way back and had a backup plan noting the area around him and other areas he could get to but IMHO he did not successfully Communicate, if he noted that the Aircraft was no longer performing and that a return to base was necessary then he would have been better advising ATC that he was experiencing Engine Problems and returning to base, most likely in the form of a PAN PAN.
None of this is to try and have a go at the guy, in the end he experienced a rather unusual Prop Failure, something that I'm fairly sure neither He nor anyone else is specifically trained for (Yes, we're trained for engine failures and partial engine failures but how many have ever really gone through this specific scenario?) and in the end he used his training and made sound decisions that lead to Himself and his Passenger walking away, but as with all incidents there are lesson to be learnt and that's part of what the Crash Investigators are meant to do and this was one lesson that others could learn.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lost, but often Indonesia
Posts: 653
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's seems he did a great job getting it down safely. Considering the aircraft looks intact, I'm assuming it settled on the rocks after the tide went out?
Puzzled of Penzance here.
In the report it is mentioned that the pilot was initially unaware that he had lost the prop. I know and realise that the prop is whirling around at breakneck speed but doesn't it have some sort of a grey/shimmering/blurring effect on the forward vision which would disappear as soon as the prop was shed?
Sorry, I can be a bear of little brain at times.
In the report it is mentioned that the pilot was initially unaware that he had lost the prop. I know and realise that the prop is whirling around at breakneck speed but doesn't it have some sort of a grey/shimmering/blurring effect on the forward vision which would disappear as soon as the prop was shed?
Sorry, I can be a bear of little brain at times.
Stupid journalists!
It didn't happen "Mid flight", it happened about 2 minutes before the end of the flight.
Back in '82, while taxying at Moree, I saw a Tiger Moth overhead in a massive sideslip descending towards the runway. He subsequently landed but stopped in the middle of the runway. As I took off past him (in a helicopter) I saw that he didn't have a prop, hence the inability to clear the runway.
It didn't happen "Mid flight", it happened about 2 minutes before the end of the flight.
Back in '82, while taxying at Moree, I saw a Tiger Moth overhead in a massive sideslip descending towards the runway. He subsequently landed but stopped in the middle of the runway. As I took off past him (in a helicopter) I saw that he didn't have a prop, hence the inability to clear the runway.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ascend Charlie: Could that aircraft have been an Auster and was the date 29 MAR 82?
Now that pilot used sound and intelligent judgment and by modern journalistic standards, could be called a "hero". Couldn't he? No radio and all.
I believe he talked with a F28 Skipper who came over to tear strips off him for slipping in before him but soon saw the folly in that.
Small world innit?
Now that pilot used sound and intelligent judgment and by modern journalistic standards, could be called a "hero". Couldn't he? No radio and all.
I believe he talked with a F28 Skipper who came over to tear strips off him for slipping in before him but soon saw the folly in that.
Small world innit?
Thread Starter
It appears it happens every now and then.
DF.
Frank, you were close, but it was 23rd March 82, and I was pretty sure it was a Tigger. And I think he was on a cross runway (is there one at Moree?? I forget) so the F28 dude wouldn't have been affected. And I was taking off at the time and don't recall anything as big as a Fokker anywhere nearby.
Folks,
Frank might just have his facts straight (as he usually does), or there must have been two occurrences only weeks apart, an unlikely proposition.
Moree must be a popular place to loose props, remember the chap flying in to the AOPA AGM one year.
Tootle pip!!
Frank might just have his facts straight (as he usually does), or there must have been two occurrences only weeks apart, an unlikely proposition.
Moree must be a popular place to loose props, remember the chap flying in to the AOPA AGM one year.
Tootle pip!!
It's pretty common for pilots to be shy about giving a mayday or pan call, unfortunately.
Whats the order of priority that should go through your mind after an engine failure - Aviate... (Check yer Airspeed-Best glide, FUEL, switchs, etc) Navigate... (Check yer Airspeed, Find a landing area)... And if yer got a spare moment - Radiate... (Check yer Airspeed, radio).....
.
Folks,
Frank might just have his facts straight (as he usually does), or there must have been two occurrences only weeks apart, an unlikely proposition.
Frank might just have his facts straight (as he usually does), or there must have been two occurrences only weeks apart, an unlikely proposition.
OK, I check my logbook, I was leading 2 Iroquois from Amberley to Berri via Moree and Cobar on 23 March.
Hmmm....On the 29th we returned....errr....via Moree....and...ummm...
Dang, in my mind we were on the outbound leg not the inbound leg, and it sure looked like a Tigger, but we were passing it at immense speed.......
LeadSled wrote:
"Moree must be a popular place to loose [sic] props, remember the chap flying into the AOPA AGM one year."
I sure remember being there, then. The meeting was rather entertaining but for all the wrong reasons.
The AGM was a classic example of why recreational aviation in Australia is now such a weak target for government. Massive egos present between Bill and Boyd. And many there finally realised that being a member of AOPA had become a total waste of time and money.
Very sad.
"Moree must be a popular place to loose [sic] props, remember the chap flying into the AOPA AGM one year."
I sure remember being there, then. The meeting was rather entertaining but for all the wrong reasons.
The AGM was a classic example of why recreational aviation in Australia is now such a weak target for government. Massive egos present between Bill and Boyd. And many there finally realised that being a member of AOPA had become a total waste of time and money.
Very sad.
Thread Starter
"Moree must be a popular place to loose [sic] props, remember the chap flying into the AOPA AGM one year."
I sure remember being there, then. The meeting was rather entertaining but for all the wrong reasons.
I sure remember being there, then. The meeting was rather entertaining but for all the wrong reasons.
DF.
