What is the ADS-B Australian Coverage at Lowest Safe Altitude?
what serrvice are you getting?
They are going to downgrade safety and only operate VFR in future
Why is a non-ADSB VFR aircraft considered/inferred by you as safe now, but not in the future?
Please, explain. You haven't yet.
It seems to me that those who bag ADSB have never really used it, most likely because they haven't gotten out from under the J Curve!
And there's probably more ADSB coverage closer to the LSALT than there is radar around Australia. So what's the real point of this thread- just another soapbox moment?
By the way, go have a read if the currently-running 121.5 whinge thread in another section. That'll be Aus if Dick gets his way and tries to make all of Aus in 121.5!
Re ' I can see you on the ground at YPKA as opposed to the PBO SSR picking you up around FL150.'
SSR at PBO these days? That's an improvement.
Cheers
SSR at PBO these days? That's an improvement.
Cheers
It seems to me that those who bag ADSB have never really used it, most likely because they haven't gotten out from under the J Curve!
Outside the J-curve below 10,000ft the coverage can only be described as patchy. How does it improve my safety here?
I have had 3 near miss scares. Each one was with a VFR aircraft flying a non ICAO altitude. How will ADS-B help this?
One of these 3 scares was a traffic alert for opposing direction VFR aircraft at the same altitude while I was in real IMC. I am concerned the cost of ADS-B will encourage more pilots to "unofficially" fly IFR like this.
The ADS-B upgrade to our twin cost over $30,000. There was about $2,500 of engineering orders alone. This is a cost mandated by CASA that does not exist in the US. The guys who say its cheap because the transponder only costs $3k are just not living in the real world.
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Akro, unless you are still driving your 1977 kingswood, I would bet that you have updated your car at a typical hit of $30K each time. Even on a Corolla it will be $15 each time.
If you said in that time frame you have done 10-11 upgrades of your car/cars, then that would be $200-300K in reinvestment.
You can't include engine and prop on this or other routine maintenance like tyres, undercarriage etc, so how much have you reinvested on your Seneca (or whatever) since 1977?
Not true 
We did a bit more than just ADSB and it was around this, but hey, I updated a car in that time frame too.
That is a separate but real issue and you should not have needed to pay that.
If you said in that time frame you have done 10-11 upgrades of your car/cars, then that would be $200-300K in reinvestment.
You can't include engine and prop on this or other routine maintenance like tyres, undercarriage etc, so how much have you reinvested on your Seneca (or whatever) since 1977?
It seems to me that those who support ADS-B have never paid for it!
The ADS-B upgrade to our twin cost over $30,000.
There was about $2,500 of engineering orders alone. This is a cost mandated by CASA that does not exist in the US.
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Most of the enthusiastic, highly emotional believers of free installation, (of the day), supporters of ADSB didn't own an aircraft. Therefor it seems to me that those who support ADS-B have never paid for it!
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Frank, are you running for the GREENS by any chance. You speak their language.
Now where is the data to support that claim.
I can think of PLENTY if not most of my flying friends, and just about every IFR friend had done so long ago.
As it is how many ADSB equipped planes have you fitted out? Statistics from naval gazing do not count for much.
The fact is we have it….what we need is all the money wasted on SSR needs to be spent on VHF, both ADSB and Coms. The bill for the double dip in the coffers could go to those who screwed it up…..people like you perhaps?
Most of the enthusiastic, highly emotional believers of free installation, (of the day), supporters of ADSB didn't own an aircraft. Therefor it seems to me that those who support ADS-B have never paid for it!
I can think of PLENTY if not most of my flying friends, and just about every IFR friend had done so long ago.
As it is how many ADSB equipped planes have you fitted out? Statistics from naval gazing do not count for much.
The fact is we have it….what we need is all the money wasted on SSR needs to be spent on VHF, both ADSB and Coms. The bill for the double dip in the coffers could go to those who screwed it up…..people like you perhaps?
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Good old MAC correcting again 
CTRE, you might be right at there being plenty who have done nothing. But this is hardly a new concept. The Bundy trials were when???
But if you moved the date to 2020…..you would have exactly the same problem and the same whiners…..just a different day.
CTRE, you might be right at there being plenty who have done nothing. But this is hardly a new concept. The Bundy trials were when???
But if you moved the date to 2020…..you would have exactly the same problem and the same whiners…..just a different day.
Do we know how many currently IFR light singles and Twins have become ADS-B capable so far? Not that many I suspect.
Window on right hand side.
Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast | Airservices
On the contrary, quite a few.
Window on right hand side.
Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast | Airservices
Window on right hand side.
Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast | Airservices
Airservices are being intentionally misleading by quoting the number of FLIGHTS that are ADS-B compliant NOT the number of AIRCRAFT. CASA has the numbers of aircraft registered in the IFR category, why do we not see this number???
When all the GA fleet has left IFR, the ratios will be a perfect 100% because it will only be the airlines left flying IFR.
Anecdotally, I would say that maybe 1 in 2 aircraft owners are decided to give up on IFR capability. Australia already has a small percentage of pilots who are IFR rated compared with the US. ADS-B will further reduce this. I would contend that this will have the effect of reducing safety.
It's a small step to then assume that more aircraft will be flying IFR illegally or scud running.
Good old MAC correcting again
CTRE, you might be right at there being plenty who have done nothing. But this is hardly a new concept. The Bundy trials were when???
But if you moved the date to 2020…..you would have exactly the same problem and the same whiners…..just a different day.
CTRE, you might be right at there being plenty who have done nothing. But this is hardly a new concept. The Bundy trials were when???
But if you moved the date to 2020…..you would have exactly the same problem and the same whiners…..just a different day.
Firstly, we've voted with our feet and done the ADS-B upgrade. The Avioincs work associated with ADS-B was about $30k.
But, the thing that delaying until 2020 would give us is that it brings us into line with the US. This will mean more readily available, cheaper equipment.
If CASA was genuine in its intent to improve safety through the introduction of ADS-B it would do 3 things:
1. Bring us into line with the timing of the country that makes the equipment
2. Follow the lead of the US and mandate it for VFR & IFR aircraft alike WHERE MODE C TRANSPONDERS ARE CURRENTLY REQUIRED. There is no safety case that reguires ADS-B to ground level in class G airspace.
3. Make some regulatory concessions to make installation cheaper / easier. The US has done this too. But just waiving the nearly unique Australian requirement for engineering orders would help.
Australia is the only country in the world that is mandating ADS-B for ALL IFR aircraft in ALL airspace at ALL levels. Why??
Lies, damned lies and statistics.
Airservices only receives flight plans, and so for the website data they retrieve the % IFR flights equipped with ADS-B figure from those.
Perhaps if you joined an industry association represented at RAPAC you'd be more aware of these facts.
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Jabawocky;
You are fully aware of my objection to mandating ADSB for VFR aircraft and the fraud of announcing it would be fully funded by AsA at no cost to the owner/operator. The cost benefits should be shared and used by the IFR fraternity and the idea of an Auster, a paraglider or parachute for that matter being forced into buying something on some airy fairy ideal of ADSB IN/OUT doing away with TCAS and revolutionizing the SAR industry is simply wrong.
I think you know me well enough to recognize the idiocy of your reference to the Greens. A bit like me accusing you of supporting the anti gun lobby.
As for statistics, most have been massaged into "lies" by the various vested interests and should be treated with the contempt they deserve. But hey! say the same thing long enough and it becomes fact. My stance was vindicated when the free installations were shown to be a cruel hoax.
Have a nice day.
You are fully aware of my objection to mandating ADSB for VFR aircraft and the fraud of announcing it would be fully funded by AsA at no cost to the owner/operator. The cost benefits should be shared and used by the IFR fraternity and the idea of an Auster, a paraglider or parachute for that matter being forced into buying something on some airy fairy ideal of ADSB IN/OUT doing away with TCAS and revolutionizing the SAR industry is simply wrong.
I think you know me well enough to recognize the idiocy of your reference to the Greens. A bit like me accusing you of supporting the anti gun lobby.
As for statistics, most have been massaged into "lies" by the various vested interests and should be treated with the contempt they deserve. But hey! say the same thing long enough and it becomes fact. My stance was vindicated when the free installations were shown to be a cruel hoax.
Have a nice day.
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ADSB by 2020, that will be interesting, as we are aware that the FAA has mandated ADSB by 2020. Unfortunately, currently they are mandating ADSB 2, which is not compatible.
The way the FAA keeps moving the deadline, by 2020, it may be 2025, but by then, ADSB will be obsolete anyways, and all will be thru the Ku band IFE system.
The way the FAA keeps moving the deadline, by 2020, it may be 2025, but by then, ADSB will be obsolete anyways, and all will be thru the Ku band IFE system.
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But if you moved the date to 2020…..you would have exactly the same problem and the same whiners…..just a different day.
They certainly were not whining.
The way the FAA keeps moving the deadline, by 2020, it may be 2025,
But there are some very, very big differences with the FAA implementation:
1. They are implementing ADSB - in so that you can get traffic information. Their system also allows weather information and some other data to be received. The US flavour of FAA adds real value to the pilot.
2. The FAA is not mandating ADS-B for all airspace types and all levels. You will still be able to fly non ADSB VFR and even IFR
3. The FAA has granted some installation concessions to help make the conversion cheaper.
The percentage IFR figure is close to the percentage of IFR airframes equipped.
Airservices only receives flight plans, and so for the website data they retrieve the % IFR flights equipped with ADS-B figure from those.
Perhaps if you joined an industry association represented at RAPAC you'd be more aware of these facts.
Airservices only receives flight plans, and so for the website data they retrieve the % IFR flights equipped with ADS-B figure from those.
Perhaps if you joined an industry association represented at RAPAC you'd be more aware of these facts.
1. I'm just going to call Bulls$#t on the assertion that 77% of IFR registered aircraft are now have ADS-B fitted. CASA will know. Since ADS-B units have aircraft details registered with them, the precise number of installed ADS-B units is known. And CASA knows what aircraft are in the IFR category.
PLUS, you will notice that the same panel that you reference says " VFR aircraft fitted voluntarily = 350" If AsA knows how many VFR aircraft have ADS-B fitted, why don't they know how many IFR aircraft are fitted? And , BTW, what is 350 as a % of the VFR fleet??
2. I know a fair bit about RAPAC. Please point me to the meetings where ABS-B has been on the agenda? It must be the one set of minutes I've missed.
I'm sure you are aware that RAPAC is regarded as a regional organ and is currently having its terms of reference reviewed to narrow its focus further. I don't believe CASA wants broad / national issues like ADS-B discussed in these fora.