Upcoming Federal Election - 2016
Thread Starter
Horatio,
If you have a read of the Civil Aviation Act 1988, you will find it is specifically barred from being a commercial regulator. It is a Safety regulator.
If you have a read of the Civil Aviation Act 1988, you will find it is specifically barred from being a commercial regulator. It is a Safety regulator.
Speaking as an operator, I find CASA is a constant drain on my resources and an impediment to my business when seeking to exploit commercial oportunities. These impediments are not legitimate "safety" concerns but beauracratic process.
For example, we had a remote second location on our AOC for our flying school. We wanted to add a third location. It took CASA six months to get around to that, of which only 4 weeks actually involved any real activity.
A little country flying school doesn't have the resources to sustain rents, wages, and the outlay on the school setup for six months while CASA fiddles. The outcome is that only the big guys win - de facto commercial regulation.
YES……..so long as they support David Lyonheljm on firearm reform and not the LIB/ALP bastards and Greens.
Basically unless you become a speciality party that only has aviation policies I think it will be very hard to get everyone in aviation to vote 1 as we all have issues we care about outside of aviation. You are better off either creating a broader party or joining a larger minor party and helping shape their aviation policy in my opinion.
I'm a NSW voter so would be happy to put such a candidate as "1" above the line. But that option isn't always available to voters on the Senate ballot paper.
Thread Starter
It's available to all voters. That's how the senate ballot paper works
Below the line you must number EVERY box. Above the line only six. I think I know what most people will do.
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mcgrath50,
did you think I meant become a clone of the LDP? If so no. But he is the only one who feels it worthwhile protecting the interests of people involved in shooting sports, approaching 1M of us.
Or are you not in favour of shooting sports?
So how many pilots and LAME's are there? Compared to how little traction shooters get. And a large number of pilots are shooters as well.
I support Leafie's sentiment but I think we are on a hiding to nothing. Sadly.
did you think I meant become a clone of the LDP? If so no. But he is the only one who feels it worthwhile protecting the interests of people involved in shooting sports, approaching 1M of us.
Or are you not in favour of shooting sports?
So how many pilots and LAME's are there? Compared to how little traction shooters get. And a large number of pilots are shooters as well.
I support Leafie's sentiment but I think we are on a hiding to nothing. Sadly.
Or are you not in favour of shooting sports?
My point is aviation is a big church. We have pro and anti gun. Economically left and right. People in the top tax bracket and the bottom.
If the aviation party ticked enough other boxes for me to make them '1', I am sure a lot of people will not be satisfied and vice versa.
Working out how to overcome that will be one of the challenges any candidates face.
Thread Starter
The normal Australian voting pattern seems to be:
1/. Lower house for your "government" (Labor, Libs, Nats, whatever)
2/. Upper house for your Conscience or your "Keep the bastards honest" vote.
Hence, the large number of Greens (and historically, Australian Democrats) in the Upper House and their almost total absence in the lower house.
My contention would be that this is our last-and-only chance to get an "Aviation" person in there.
It is increasingly looking like Turnbull's changes to the Electoral Act will close this opportunity off, however.
1/. Lower house for your "government" (Labor, Libs, Nats, whatever)
2/. Upper house for your Conscience or your "Keep the bastards honest" vote.
Hence, the large number of Greens (and historically, Australian Democrats) in the Upper House and their almost total absence in the lower house.
My contention would be that this is our last-and-only chance to get an "Aviation" person in there.
It is increasingly looking like Turnbull's changes to the Electoral Act will close this opportunity off, however.
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Speaking as someone who has serious regrets over not doing this earlier (was "busy" and too easily dissuaded into not registering a party back before the previous election, despite being certain what was on the cards, and being on the money as it turned out):
1. In order to stand any chance of election, one must run as a party, not an independent.
2. Its very probably too late to register a party now - certainly too late for a predicted double dissolution election, or any other election in July.
3. Require someone with very high public profile to constantly push the agenda (and that someone should not be assoicated in the public mind with failure, bankruptcy, worthless gift-cards, etc).
4. Changes to senate voting mean no chance of an inependent (ie not party) being elected, and less chance of "mistaken" party votes and donkey votes with the proposed party banners being printed on the ballots.
5. Far less people vote "to keep the bastards honest" these days (and the Liberals will use nebulous "too close to call" Newspool figures in the usual fear-campaign technique to run the "Don't risk it" line on the senate). Much more likely for media-driven voting of "1 Liberal Party" ... and not even going beyond that (ie: not even numbering 2,3,4,5,6)
6. And, importantly, the Party name and objectives would have to be electorally appealing and broad, with scant reference to aviation. Not a snowflake's chance of an outwardly pro-aviation party gaining serious votes in the wider electorate.
1. In order to stand any chance of election, one must run as a party, not an independent.
2. Its very probably too late to register a party now - certainly too late for a predicted double dissolution election, or any other election in July.
3. Require someone with very high public profile to constantly push the agenda (and that someone should not be assoicated in the public mind with failure, bankruptcy, worthless gift-cards, etc).
4. Changes to senate voting mean no chance of an inependent (ie not party) being elected, and less chance of "mistaken" party votes and donkey votes with the proposed party banners being printed on the ballots.
5. Far less people vote "to keep the bastards honest" these days (and the Liberals will use nebulous "too close to call" Newspool figures in the usual fear-campaign technique to run the "Don't risk it" line on the senate). Much more likely for media-driven voting of "1 Liberal Party" ... and not even going beyond that (ie: not even numbering 2,3,4,5,6)
6. And, importantly, the Party name and objectives would have to be electorally appealing and broad, with scant reference to aviation. Not a snowflake's chance of an outwardly pro-aviation party gaining serious votes in the wider electorate.
Last edited by Another Number; 23rd Feb 2016 at 02:49. Reason: added point 6
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A deal has been brokered. The micro party's will go. the opposition will oppose. The government will continue to tread water until after the next election which they will win. (albeit with a very reduced majority). A Bill will be presented for a carbon tax by the government. This will be supported by both sides and the greens. The fiscal problems, (on paper), will be solved. Aviation will be just another casualty and the world will keep revolving. Airfares will increase. Alan Joyce will go. CAsA will thrive and clone and Airservices will continue to serve.
Lucky country Australia.
Don't do it Dick.
Lucky country Australia.
Don't do it Dick.
Thanks Frank for the reality check. Anyone who thinks voting will make a difference at the next election is a bit naive. The agenda will continue regardless. As for looking carefully at the various policies these politicians espouse, all I can say is you haven't learned your history and have short memories.
That said, if I could bring myself to vote I would support an aviation friendly candidate first.
That said, if I could bring myself to vote I would support an aviation friendly candidate first.
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Just informed via another site that Roger Chambers has left the CAsA building for greener pastures at AsA. How much will this cost the taxpayer with new business cards and Montreal trips and just who in Parliament gives a rat's?
Talk about spreading the chaos and as if we deserve it.
VOTE (1) "Eliterete, Egalitor and Excklerence". and spread the word.
Talk about spreading the chaos and as if we deserve it.
VOTE (1) "Eliterete, Egalitor and Excklerence". and spread the word.
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My 20 cents
No.
It's a reasonable question, but single issue parties - and single issue senators - just don't achieve much, if anything. Sure, they sit on assorted committees and enquiries, they do op-ed interviews and photo ops and generally get treated like the rare and slightly exotic animal that they are, but they don't actually DO much. Sometimes, they even get thrown some minor concessions in exchange for their vote. However, much like the organ grinder's monkey of old, they're an entertaining sideshow, but not the main game.
However, if you truly think a single senator representing GA will make a difference, then pick a current senator with compatible views and woo him or her to your cause. Volunteer as their advisor for aviation matters, perhaps. Ricky Muir, for example - it probably wouldn't be a stretch for most of the non-aviation community to see him representing both motoring AND aviation. Ricky and his single issue/micro party colleagues are probably about to go extinct, though, so maybe it'd be a wasted effort.
Better yet, lobby the major parties. All of them. Constantly. Create a shiny new lobby group if you have to. There's a number of groups already in existence which mostly seem to dilute each others' efforts, or try to be all things to all people. Getting a united voice for GA in general - not 'the aviation industry' or a wholly self-interested subset thereof - which maintained a consistent policy platform and presence, would perhaps start to make the real difference you crave.
Good luck, anyway. The final extinction of GA in Australia is looking like a real possibility, and quite soon.
It's a reasonable question, but single issue parties - and single issue senators - just don't achieve much, if anything. Sure, they sit on assorted committees and enquiries, they do op-ed interviews and photo ops and generally get treated like the rare and slightly exotic animal that they are, but they don't actually DO much. Sometimes, they even get thrown some minor concessions in exchange for their vote. However, much like the organ grinder's monkey of old, they're an entertaining sideshow, but not the main game.
However, if you truly think a single senator representing GA will make a difference, then pick a current senator with compatible views and woo him or her to your cause. Volunteer as their advisor for aviation matters, perhaps. Ricky Muir, for example - it probably wouldn't be a stretch for most of the non-aviation community to see him representing both motoring AND aviation. Ricky and his single issue/micro party colleagues are probably about to go extinct, though, so maybe it'd be a wasted effort.
Better yet, lobby the major parties. All of them. Constantly. Create a shiny new lobby group if you have to. There's a number of groups already in existence which mostly seem to dilute each others' efforts, or try to be all things to all people. Getting a united voice for GA in general - not 'the aviation industry' or a wholly self-interested subset thereof - which maintained a consistent policy platform and presence, would perhaps start to make the real difference you crave.
Good luck, anyway. The final extinction of GA in Australia is looking like a real possibility, and quite soon.
"I'm a NSW voter so would be happy to put such a candidate as "1" above the line. But that option isn't always available on the Senate ballot paper."
I stand by that comment, mcgrath50.
Voting above the line is only available for grouped candidates. On the lower right of Senate ballot papers, there's often ungrouped candidates. You can't vote for them above the line.
The reason for my comment was that the person H.L. is possibly supporting may be an ungrouped candidate.
I stand by that comment, mcgrath50.
Voting above the line is only available for grouped candidates. On the lower right of Senate ballot papers, there's often ungrouped candidates. You can't vote for them above the line.
The reason for my comment was that the person H.L. is possibly supporting may be an ungrouped candidate.
Thread Starter
The Senate voting reform is through and I am not convinced the revised method will wipe out the minor parties - all pundits are now saying it is impossible to guess the makeup of the senate if there is a Double-Dissolution on July 2.
The new rules will require 1-6 boxes ABOVE the line or 12+ BELOW the line.
I am one of the wierdos (only 4% of Australians) who voted below the line and numbered all the boxes but I think more people could be convinced to number just 12 boxes.
More than 25% of Australians gave their first vote to a minor party in the Senate at the last election. If we can get a candidate to run for Aviation, I still think we may be a chance (McGrath50's excellent points above notwithstanding).
Any of you blokes got a couple of spare weeks in the lead-up to July 2, and Six spare years?
...Dick?
Leadsled?
The new rules will require 1-6 boxes ABOVE the line or 12+ BELOW the line.
I am one of the wierdos (only 4% of Australians) who voted below the line and numbered all the boxes but I think more people could be convinced to number just 12 boxes.
More than 25% of Australians gave their first vote to a minor party in the Senate at the last election. If we can get a candidate to run for Aviation, I still think we may be a chance (McGrath50's excellent points above notwithstanding).
Any of you blokes got a couple of spare weeks in the lead-up to July 2, and Six spare years?
...Dick?
Leadsled?
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Maybe. I will qualify by saying it depends who they will give their preferences to. ATM there is isn't anyone in any party I would be happy to vote for (apart from NX) so I sure don't want to support any via a preference arrangement. What a crippled state our politicians are in...most of them.
On another issue why are all the young things on TV and radio, the ones that call themselves journalists or radio presenters, all calling a "double disallusion"? Do they really think that is the term for it or do they see the irony in the name?
On another issue why are all the young things on TV and radio, the ones that call themselves journalists or radio presenters, all calling a "double disallusion"? Do they really think that is the term for it or do they see the irony in the name?
Thread Starter
"Young people these days gabble. I can't understand a THING they say."
- my 90-year-old Grandmother, 20 years ago.
also: truthinbeer, 8 minutes ago.
- my 90-year-old Grandmother, 20 years ago.
also: truthinbeer, 8 minutes ago.
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Electioneering for the 2016 Federal election has started in earnest. Yesterday Bill Shorten ALP addressed the party faithful and others at a meeting in Central Qld.
A mate of mine seized the opportunity to make Bill Shorten aware of the dire straits G.A. is in. He asked from the meeting floor in front of print, radio and television media if he Shorten won the election would he hold a Royal Commission into C.A.S.A.s activities and if he would give us a minister with a pilots licence and the guts to see that the Commission’s recommendations were carried out.
Shorten told the meeting that in his union days he represented A.M.E.s in Victoria and he was well aware of the shrinking maintenance jobs market as big companies moved their maintenance off shore. He was also aware of the very high average age of LAMEs.
My mate emphasized the scary rate G.A. is decreasing in Australia and CASAs role in it. Shorten put the questions on notice with a promise to reply when he had obtained more information.
If every pilot, LAME and others who have an interest in seeing G.A. thrive made the effort to attend these meetings when they hit their town and asked similar questions in the full glare of the media to the representatives of the 4 major parties they might finally realize there is a problem. They should also remind candidates that Aviation Activity produces jobs.
Similar questions coming from every tin pot town and village across Australia might just light the fuse for change.
A mate of mine seized the opportunity to make Bill Shorten aware of the dire straits G.A. is in. He asked from the meeting floor in front of print, radio and television media if he Shorten won the election would he hold a Royal Commission into C.A.S.A.s activities and if he would give us a minister with a pilots licence and the guts to see that the Commission’s recommendations were carried out.
Shorten told the meeting that in his union days he represented A.M.E.s in Victoria and he was well aware of the shrinking maintenance jobs market as big companies moved their maintenance off shore. He was also aware of the very high average age of LAMEs.
My mate emphasized the scary rate G.A. is decreasing in Australia and CASAs role in it. Shorten put the questions on notice with a promise to reply when he had obtained more information.
If every pilot, LAME and others who have an interest in seeing G.A. thrive made the effort to attend these meetings when they hit their town and asked similar questions in the full glare of the media to the representatives of the 4 major parties they might finally realize there is a problem. They should also remind candidates that Aviation Activity produces jobs.
Similar questions coming from every tin pot town and village across Australia might just light the fuse for change.
Thread Starter
Politics in the Pub
Great point Frank.
Barnaby and the State Minister for Meat Pies are doing Politics in the Pub in our town on Tuesday next week...
Barnaby and the State Minister for Meat Pies are doing Politics in the Pub in our town on Tuesday next week...
