Sector DME arrivals
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Sector DME arrivals
Just had a chance to review some Australian plates and noticed this Sector Arrival approaches.
Never seen them in N America nor Europe.
Can anyone point me to a link that provides a good explanation of those procedures?
Please see: Sydney ,NSW, Australia 10-2A and Canberra,ACT, Australia 10-2A
Thanx
IF
Never seen them in N America nor Europe.
Can anyone point me to a link that provides a good explanation of those procedures?
Please see: Sydney ,NSW, Australia 10-2A and Canberra,ACT, Australia 10-2A
Thanx
IF
Join Date: Nov 2007
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They were always pretty handy as a cloud break procedure for a visual approach. The trick was to find the most limiting step, and plan your normal descent profile to intercept it. Biggest drawback was that a simple mistake reading the chart could spell disaster.
To my knowledge, they are not used anywhere else in the world......I have received feedback from other parts world indicating that we are 'nuts' to be allowing such procedures to be used.
Nevertheless the criteria for designing them is contained in MOS 173. I have used them in anger and they are a pretty neat and efficient way of getting visual if you know the weather is not down to the minima.
With the massive reduction in navaids coming in a few years, many of the DGA's will be going with them...their days are numbered.
Alpha
Nevertheless the criteria for designing them is contained in MOS 173. I have used them in anger and they are a pretty neat and efficient way of getting visual if you know the weather is not down to the minima.
With the massive reduction in navaids coming in a few years, many of the DGA's will be going with them...their days are numbered.
Alpha
About a 100 years ago when good 'ole Keith Hants was around (great bloke loved a chat!)
he mentioned that the DME ARR was mainly set up as an off shoot from the good 'ole DME homing (or something like that, been a while since Keith handed a coffee into the old Link trainer just as you where turning inbound on an NDB App) & as has been mentioned above was a good way of getting visual for a Viz circuit due Oz having mostly fine weather especially inland.
The bloody CTA steps are a pain sometimes associated with the DME ARR only here in Oz where we do things "better" than the rest of the 5th world countries.....cough cough cough
Wmk2
he mentioned that the DME ARR was mainly set up as an off shoot from the good 'ole DME homing (or something like that, been a while since Keith handed a coffee into the old Link trainer just as you where turning inbound on an NDB App) & as has been mentioned above was a good way of getting visual for a Viz circuit due Oz having mostly fine weather especially inland.The bloody CTA steps are a pain sometimes associated with the DME ARR only here in Oz where we do things "better" than the rest of the 5th world countries.....cough cough cough
Wmk2
Last edited by Wally Mk2; 10th Jun 2014 at 22:59.
I always thought the DME arrivals to be a practical idea in theory, but after seeing some guys try to fly a jet like it was descending stairs I found the practical application a bit wanting.
As Mr. Warning mentioned, if you can finger the most limiting step and arrange your profile and energy accordingly they can be pretty handy.
The CTA steps are another matter entirely.
As Mr. Warning mentioned, if you can finger the most limiting step and arrange your profile and energy accordingly they can be pretty handy.
The CTA steps are another matter entirely.
We use them going in to class D (non radar) such as Launceston and Hobart. They are printed for other locations however where there is radar, you will never be asked to use them.
Look at the Launceston sector A arrival, where the altitude limit is 5000 till 12 DME, that's quite limiting......oh wait a minute, you can't descend below 7000 feet till 14 DME anyway lest you bust the CTA step.
Good times!
Look at the Launceston sector A arrival, where the altitude limit is 5000 till 12 DME, that's quite limiting......oh wait a minute, you can't descend below 7000 feet till 14 DME anyway lest you bust the CTA step.
Good times!
About a 100 years ago when good 'ole Keith Hants was around (great bloke loved a chat!)
Probably without him being aware of it, Keith and his stories and general chit chat while you were trying hard to concentrate on an instrument approach, proved excellent value on how to cope with outside distractions while flying on instruments. And the coffee was free at any time although it was good manners to throw in a few coins to help defray costs. Thanks for mentioning his name Wally - it brought back memories of a fine old bloke in Keith Hants
'Centy' I often think of old Keith whenever I see an old Toyota Cressida, I used to tinker with it for him sometimes whilst it was parked outside the end of the finger-way where his Link trainer was.
I can recall Kieth often trying to 'fine tune' the so called 'computer' system on the old Link as well as changing valves & keeping the air bellows in working order, God how old are we 'Centy'?
His DC story over Hobsons Bay was the best, a character we shall most likely never see again
Off topic I know but worth a few words in his honor for giving us the ability to do all the basic App's in a at the time advanced machine that most youngin's now can only read about in history books.
The Ansett Sim center has one on display, I walk past that going to the 'Bus' & have a private giggle
Wmk2
I can recall Kieth often trying to 'fine tune' the so called 'computer' system on the old Link as well as changing valves & keeping the air bellows in working order, God how old are we 'Centy'?
His DC story over Hobsons Bay was the best, a character we shall most likely never see again
Off topic I know but worth a few words in his honor for giving us the ability to do all the basic App's in a at the time advanced machine that most youngin's now can only read about in history books.
The Ansett Sim center has one on display, I walk past that going to the 'Bus' & have a private giggle
Wmk2
Biggest drawback was that a simple mistake reading the chart could spell disaster.
seeing some guys try to fly a jet like it was descending stairs I found the practical application a bit wanting.
we are 'nuts' to be allowing such procedures to be used.
The bloody CTA steps are a pain
Originally Posted by Underfire
AUS has some of the most complex MVA overlays for procedures I have ever seen....
OP Inboardflap
If you are going to SYD & CBR, just ignore those charts, you won't be using them.
If however you are going "outback" you may find the rnav to be your friend.
halas
If however you are going "outback" you may find the rnav to be your friend.
halas
!!
DME homing still exists in PNG. Anyone know where to find the instructions on how to actually fly the approach?
Time was, many (most?) an IR renewal concluded with an asymmetric, limited panel, DME homing and let down!
Dr
Used to be handy on SYD-OOL in the F-28, tracking in via Casino the restriction I think was 4,800' until 10 DME OOL, saved heaps of time/fuel compared to doing the RWY 14 VOR/DME from overhead..