MERGED: Free Spirit Airlines again...got a spare $147,000 plus?
@FNB: Actually i'm talking about people who like me, finished their CPL training right after the "GFC" hit and yet still managed, during this dreaded GFC and post GFC world to move progressively through the ranks into the right seat in and airline, all while battling the GFC conditions you alluded to.
Cadet ships are no sure thing to getting in to an airline either.
People need to remember, Airline work in Australia isn't as abundant as Europe or here in north america due to our size. There are less RPT carriers here compare to other countries, and the rate of openings per year is far less that that of schools pumping out CPL students, so there will always be an excess of guys in GA fighting for Airline spots, nothing about the conditions in Australia, more about supply and demand. And when supply is high and demand is low, the RPT guys will always be picky...
Cadet ships are no sure thing to getting in to an airline either.
People need to remember, Airline work in Australia isn't as abundant as Europe or here in north america due to our size. There are less RPT carriers here compare to other countries, and the rate of openings per year is far less that that of schools pumping out CPL students, so there will always be an excess of guys in GA fighting for Airline spots, nothing about the conditions in Australia, more about supply and demand. And when supply is high and demand is low, the RPT guys will always be picky...
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I know a guy that got in to Virgin 3 years to the day after getting his CPL. He flew singles out west, went to twins on the east coast, all smack bang in the middle of the GFC.
Another, flying singles, turbines and twins out west, regional within 2.5 years, captain and now J*. Difference between him and a cadet that'll most certainly be stuck in the right hand seat while he progresses to the left? He has REAL flying experience, REAL command decision making ability and a whole lot of awesome stories and mates across the country who share a comradery that cadets will simply not understand.
I observed a J* cadet do some IF training in a fixed base twin sim recently and when it came to unusual attitude recovery training he quickly identified the unusual attitude he was in by uttering the the words, I'm in a spin! $hit! I'm dead! And let go of the controls and just watched the scenery spin around on the screens...
I feel safe already when some of these cadets move to the left seat and then supervise another cadet... Because they'll both know this GA thing is just time wasting, back breaking rubbish
Another, flying singles, turbines and twins out west, regional within 2.5 years, captain and now J*. Difference between him and a cadet that'll most certainly be stuck in the right hand seat while he progresses to the left? He has REAL flying experience, REAL command decision making ability and a whole lot of awesome stories and mates across the country who share a comradery that cadets will simply not understand.
I observed a J* cadet do some IF training in a fixed base twin sim recently and when it came to unusual attitude recovery training he quickly identified the unusual attitude he was in by uttering the the words, I'm in a spin! $hit! I'm dead! And let go of the controls and just watched the scenery spin around on the screens...
I feel safe already when some of these cadets move to the left seat and then supervise another cadet... Because they'll both know this GA thing is just time wasting, back breaking rubbish
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FBN,
Gotta say I'm a bit disappointed in your more recent posts.
Your earlier posts had some inspirational stuff: some clever marketing spiels, quoting cadet statistics that were astonishingly close to being accurate and who could have come up with "Go straight to the Jet - Go Cadet"
All pure gold.
Now however, all you're doing is abusing people.
Sad really,
DIVOSH!
Gotta say I'm a bit disappointed in your more recent posts.
Your earlier posts had some inspirational stuff: some clever marketing spiels, quoting cadet statistics that were astonishingly close to being accurate and who could have come up with "Go straight to the Jet - Go Cadet"
All pure gold.
Now however, all you're doing is abusing people.
Sad really,
DIVOSH!
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DV:
I don't think I abused anyone, perhaps a little dig at some people who I don't think were telling the truth.
The cadet stats are pretty accurate , that is something I do know.
I note a few more GA Wonderboy (GAW) experiences outlined above.
I placed a bet of $100 with two other guys who outlined their own self describe Alistar Maclean style resumes of unadulterated success on this forum. Both guys in my viewing were big-noting and lying -neither took the bet.
The guy above ip; really day of CPL to Virgin 3 years - don't believe it , happy to bet $100 and another $100 on your other boy, and am happy to put another $100 that Aussie Nicks bio is not true. Other stories V Fishy - you don't get to ANZ mainline five years after CPL brother.
You guys just love to believe these GA Wonderboy stories - like believing in the miraculous conception.
If you guys are going to progress you need to look to the North and the East.
On another topic understand that almost all Qantas Second Officers (QSO) on 380 & 744 are on over $200k atm. Fair pay for their skill set and responsibility I think , indeed fair pay - they are the elite , they are special.
Really about the same that a Captain at BA, American , Delta , United , but more than an Air Canada Capt makes. But our guys are worth it - they are the pride of our nation.
Just something that does confuse me a little - why do QF have SOs on runs that are Bris/Sing , syd/Man , Syd/hg - where every airline they are competing against has only a Capt/FO. Perhaps if got 100 Phd's from Oxford and workshopped it for a weekend - we could figure out a way to save a dollar.
Somebody asked me a question yesterday and atm I am quite perplexed.
"What did the QSO say to the Cathay icadet ?"
Go straight to the Jet - Go Cadet"
I don't think I abused anyone, perhaps a little dig at some people who I don't think were telling the truth.
The cadet stats are pretty accurate , that is something I do know.
I note a few more GA Wonderboy (GAW) experiences outlined above.
I placed a bet of $100 with two other guys who outlined their own self describe Alistar Maclean style resumes of unadulterated success on this forum. Both guys in my viewing were big-noting and lying -neither took the bet.
The guy above ip; really day of CPL to Virgin 3 years - don't believe it , happy to bet $100 and another $100 on your other boy, and am happy to put another $100 that Aussie Nicks bio is not true. Other stories V Fishy - you don't get to ANZ mainline five years after CPL brother.
You guys just love to believe these GA Wonderboy stories - like believing in the miraculous conception.
If you guys are going to progress you need to look to the North and the East.
On another topic understand that almost all Qantas Second Officers (QSO) on 380 & 744 are on over $200k atm. Fair pay for their skill set and responsibility I think , indeed fair pay - they are the elite , they are special.
Really about the same that a Captain at BA, American , Delta , United , but more than an Air Canada Capt makes. But our guys are worth it - they are the pride of our nation.
Just something that does confuse me a little - why do QF have SOs on runs that are Bris/Sing , syd/Man , Syd/hg - where every airline they are competing against has only a Capt/FO. Perhaps if got 100 Phd's from Oxford and workshopped it for a weekend - we could figure out a way to save a dollar.
Somebody asked me a question yesterday and atm I am quite perplexed.
"What did the QSO say to the Cathay icadet ?"
Go straight to the Jet - Go Cadet"
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FBN
That's more like it. Bit more of the old rhetoric.
Couple of points:
1. Your more recent posts come across as abusive, no if's but's or maybe's. If you don't believe me, Google "email tone" or similar.
2. The information you have regarding Qantas cadets who've found themselves in Qlink is not quite accurate:
Yes, MOST of the Qantas cadets who joined Qlink in 2005-2007 are now captains. Having said that, IIRC, the first one only became a captain 3 years ago.
The rest of the Qantas cadets (i.e. the courses finishing post-2008) were told to find work elsewhere. Some of them were invited to join Qlink a few years ago (3 years at most, and all of these guys/girls have at least four years in the RHS.) So best case scenario: told to f-off in 2009, some got a job with us in 2011 and MIGHT become a captain in 2015.
So a cadet to Turboprop captain in 7 years, and a cadet with 2 years looking for themselves, then another four as a Qlink FO (Best case scenario).
Not quite the glowing picture you painted for them.
3. I was curious about your point regarding Qantas cadets being "the chosen". Unless you've received very different correspondence than some of my friends, Qantas basically told the Qantas cadets at Qlink not to expect further progression.
DIVOSH!
That's more like it. Bit more of the old rhetoric.
Couple of points:
1. Your more recent posts come across as abusive, no if's but's or maybe's. If you don't believe me, Google "email tone" or similar.
2. The information you have regarding Qantas cadets who've found themselves in Qlink is not quite accurate:
Yes, MOST of the Qantas cadets who joined Qlink in 2005-2007 are now captains. Having said that, IIRC, the first one only became a captain 3 years ago.
The rest of the Qantas cadets (i.e. the courses finishing post-2008) were told to find work elsewhere. Some of them were invited to join Qlink a few years ago (3 years at most, and all of these guys/girls have at least four years in the RHS.) So best case scenario: told to f-off in 2009, some got a job with us in 2011 and MIGHT become a captain in 2015.
So a cadet to Turboprop captain in 7 years, and a cadet with 2 years looking for themselves, then another four as a Qlink FO (Best case scenario).
Not quite the glowing picture you painted for them.
3. I was curious about your point regarding Qantas cadets being "the chosen". Unless you've received very different correspondence than some of my friends, Qantas basically told the Qantas cadets at Qlink not to expect further progression.
DIVOSH!
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Your $200,000 a year, ( bull****) isn't a lot when you're facing redundancy with just SO hours, buddy. No one is interested in you with that time. That's where having some experience is a lifesaver. Took me 15 years to get to a jet from GA, and I didn't have more than 15 hrs of turbo prop time. At 44 years of age, no less.
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Flyboat North
FlyboatNorth,
You publicly challenged me to a bet - and I publicly took it.
However, I have not followed through, so I think that you at least deserve an explanation.
And the explanation is this.........
I can't be bothered.
And you're not worth it.
You went fishing; and I'm happy to admit that I took the bait.
I was planning on scanning my endo page on my licence - blanking out the name and ARN and then posting it here, but then I thought......
I can't be bothered.
And you're not worth it.
Posters like j3, smiling monkey know who I am. Others who might look at my previous posts and know me personally would probably be able to connect the dots also.
If anyone who knows me personally thinks that I have embellished my experience and jobs etc...then please call me on it.
FlyboatNorth - I don't think that my progression has been extremely quick, but you did call me a GA WonderBoy.
Thank you for that. I will take that as a compliment. Makes me feel special.
Enjoy your visual circuits in a 152 mate. And as a favour to the General Aviation community, please don't be one of those disgruntled flying school instructors that gives a hard time to the younger guys.
Many of these fellows have the drive and passion to progress, even if you don't.
Trying to stand in their way and get them down........it's like the school bully coming home and beating up small animals.......it's just sad, really.
Don't be that guy, you're better than that.
Safe flying.
Eternity.
You publicly challenged me to a bet - and I publicly took it.
However, I have not followed through, so I think that you at least deserve an explanation.
And the explanation is this.........
I can't be bothered.
And you're not worth it.
You went fishing; and I'm happy to admit that I took the bait.
I was planning on scanning my endo page on my licence - blanking out the name and ARN and then posting it here, but then I thought......
I can't be bothered.
And you're not worth it.
Posters like j3, smiling monkey know who I am. Others who might look at my previous posts and know me personally would probably be able to connect the dots also.
If anyone who knows me personally thinks that I have embellished my experience and jobs etc...then please call me on it.
FlyboatNorth - I don't think that my progression has been extremely quick, but you did call me a GA WonderBoy.
Thank you for that. I will take that as a compliment. Makes me feel special.
Enjoy your visual circuits in a 152 mate. And as a favour to the General Aviation community, please don't be one of those disgruntled flying school instructors that gives a hard time to the younger guys.
Many of these fellows have the drive and passion to progress, even if you don't.
Trying to stand in their way and get them down........it's like the school bully coming home and beating up small animals.......it's just sad, really.
Don't be that guy, you're better than that.
Safe flying.
Eternity.
FBN: Other stories V Fishy - you don't get to ANZ mainline five years after CPL brother.
FBN:
1) What bio are you talking about? Have I ever said that I am working for an RPT? Did I even indicate that i'm working commercially?
2) I Said working for AirNZ, I never said mainline did I?
I worked with the fella who is now with AirNZ. And i've known the guy flying for Virgin since our GFPT days.
You catch e as someone with a very large chip on their shoulder, couldn't survive in GA hmmm?
and am happy to put another $100 that Aussie Nicks bio is not true. Other stories V Fishy - you don't get to ANZ mainline five years after CPL brother.
2) I Said working for AirNZ, I never said mainline did I?
I worked with the fella who is now with AirNZ. And i've known the guy flying for Virgin since our GFPT days.
You catch e as someone with a very large chip on their shoulder, couldn't survive in GA hmmm?
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AN: your GAW story is published right here:
Actually i'm talking about people who like me, finished their CPL training right after the "GFC" hit and yet still managed, during this dreaded GFC and post GFC world to move progressively through the ranks into the right seat in and airline
Poor Old Nick sounds like he is getting a bit forgetful, are you all right mate ?
Come on ET , take the bet, it was a whoppa of a GAW story you told , a whoppa tale of GAW nirvana
If you say ANZ people will think you mean mainline, getting to a regional within five years of piston GA is good going right now, jet job will take ten for the lucky few who achieve it.
So in other words five years GA ,likely casual/contract employment of half of that then a regional. ANZ links kick off the pay at about $45 K (NZ) don't they ?
The QF cadets up to end of 2008 went straight to Qlink. After that a new QF CP was appointed policy changed albeit briefly. Remember their were only a trickle of people in the QF program post 2008, those who had been told to do the three year degree at Swinburne , or did one year course in 2008.
The policy end 2008 then became they would have to source their own jobs come back and see QF in a couple of years , most instructed @ the larger flying schools.
So pre start 2009 all joined Qlink direct upon graduation, with some CPL QF cadets classes going directly to QF mainline from FTA (got lucky), then for a 1.5/2 year period they had to find own jobs , then when Jetstar kicked off CShip in mid 2010 those QF cadets still "in training" were offered places on the program , ab-initio or advanced.
This would fit my definition of the chosen
I think that would fit the definition most people would have of "the chosen" beats sitting around outback towns for months on the dole waiting for the sniff of a job.
I still willing to bet $100 with anyone who can substantiate getting from start to RH narrowbody jet within five years in Australia, since 2008 - just doesn't happen..
Had a couple of glamour pussies claim otherwise & the did the talk part great, just pulled up a tad short when it came to the delivery side of the equation.
Oh goodness me ET: A couple of anonymous posters "vouch for you" that means you are correct beyond any doubt , where do I send the $100 to - goodness me the persuasiveness of anonymous pprune posters.
BTW nobody has had a go at answering my question "What did the Qantas Second Officer say to the the Cathay iCadet ? "
Actually i'm talking about people who like me, finished their CPL training right after the "GFC" hit and yet still managed, during this dreaded GFC and post GFC world to move progressively through the ranks into the right seat in and airline
Poor Old Nick sounds like he is getting a bit forgetful, are you all right mate ?
Come on ET , take the bet, it was a whoppa of a GAW story you told , a whoppa tale of GAW nirvana
If you say ANZ people will think you mean mainline, getting to a regional within five years of piston GA is good going right now, jet job will take ten for the lucky few who achieve it.
So in other words five years GA ,likely casual/contract employment of half of that then a regional. ANZ links kick off the pay at about $45 K (NZ) don't they ?
The QF cadets up to end of 2008 went straight to Qlink. After that a new QF CP was appointed policy changed albeit briefly. Remember their were only a trickle of people in the QF program post 2008, those who had been told to do the three year degree at Swinburne , or did one year course in 2008.
The policy end 2008 then became they would have to source their own jobs come back and see QF in a couple of years , most instructed @ the larger flying schools.
So pre start 2009 all joined Qlink direct upon graduation, with some CPL QF cadets classes going directly to QF mainline from FTA (got lucky), then for a 1.5/2 year period they had to find own jobs , then when Jetstar kicked off CShip in mid 2010 those QF cadets still "in training" were offered places on the program , ab-initio or advanced.
This would fit my definition of the chosen
- Mainly direct to Qlink
- Those who went to Qlink got massive numbers of extra training sectors if needed, DV you must remember the guy who got 200
sectors before they called "no ball" - They were allowed to stay at Qlink beyond the two years
- Special program designed to upgrade them in Qlink
- Some left Qlink to go fly jets , will still be first to be interviewed if QF ever hires again
- The QF "get your own job" cadets - who only existed for a two year period were fastracked into Jetstar advanced & Qlink trainee ship
- Those QF cadets still "in training" when Jetstar announced their cadetships all offered places. Surprisingly only about 50% accepted the offer - fools could have gone straight to the Jet !!
I think that would fit the definition most people would have of "the chosen" beats sitting around outback towns for months on the dole waiting for the sniff of a job.
I still willing to bet $100 with anyone who can substantiate getting from start to RH narrowbody jet within five years in Australia, since 2008 - just doesn't happen..
Had a couple of glamour pussies claim otherwise & the did the talk part great, just pulled up a tad short when it came to the delivery side of the equation.
Oh goodness me ET: A couple of anonymous posters "vouch for you" that means you are correct beyond any doubt , where do I send the $100 to - goodness me the persuasiveness of anonymous pprune posters.
BTW nobody has had a go at answering my question "What did the Qantas Second Officer say to the the Cathay iCadet ? "
Last edited by Flyboat North; 16th May 2014 at 08:32.
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FBN, mate, seriously how old are you? I don't mean to be rude but you deadset sound like you have the maturity of a 14 year old school boy. You just keep going on and on with your abject jealousy on display to everyone. You don't want to believe anyone else, thats all. It would hurt too much otherwise, obviously. Continue your denial champion, and your immature schoolyard rants. You aren't convincing anyone with your argument, but you are worth a condescending laugh.
This thread is supposed to be about Free Spirit Airlines, but once again is has changed to be another cadet bashing exercise.
Got to say that FBN has quoted more first-hand facts about the cadetships than everyone else in this thread put together. I don;t see anyone here disproving FBNs assertions.
Got to say that FBN has quoted more first-hand facts about the cadetships than everyone else in this thread put together. I don;t see anyone here disproving FBNs assertions.
Hey, I'll have a go, Flyboat. The QF Second Officer said to the Cathay iCadet,
'What's it like living in a crappy polluted city, a pimple on the bum of China, sharing a concrete dog box with two other cadets on a sub-standard housing allowance, inadequate salary, unemployable anywhere else, facing a hard road passing your Junior F/O upgrade because of your lack of handling skills and experience then another fifteen to twenty years to Command, if you make the grade, probably on Z-scales, and then contemplating retirement after a lifetime of brutal rosters of ultra long haul, overnight turnarounds to various Asian crap holes, permanent jet lag and aggressive management?'
'What's it like living in a crappy polluted city, a pimple on the bum of China, sharing a concrete dog box with two other cadets on a sub-standard housing allowance, inadequate salary, unemployable anywhere else, facing a hard road passing your Junior F/O upgrade because of your lack of handling skills and experience then another fifteen to twenty years to Command, if you make the grade, probably on Z-scales, and then contemplating retirement after a lifetime of brutal rosters of ultra long haul, overnight turnarounds to various Asian crap holes, permanent jet lag and aggressive management?'
Last edited by Captain Dart; 16th May 2014 at 22:20.
Got to say that FBN has quoted more first-hand facts about the cadetships than everyone else in this thread put together. I don;t see anyone here disproving FBNs assertions.
then when Jetstar kicked off CShip in mid 2010 those QF cadets still "in training" were offered places on the program , ab-initio or advanced.
The QF "get your own job" cadets - who only existed for a two year period were fastracked into Jetstar advanced & Qlink trainee ship
How do I know this? I sat side by side with these guys during their course at Swinburne and still keep in touch with them to this day.
Disproven assertions.
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Captains Required
This mob looks to be getting into gear, interested to hear if any of the ex Vincent crew will apply since the only jobs left in Myanmar were just given away to more kiwis!