"Metro" Class D

[ravan]

Reading a couple of recent threads, I noted references to "Metro" Class D. It reminded me of the visit I had (at the flying school where I work) from an Air Services Australia representative some time ago.
He was conducting a survey on air space usage around Brisbane and any difficulties that might have arisen. Since Archerfield's air space is next to/under Brisbane airspace, I raised some concerns about the interaction between Archerfield's Class D and Brisbane's Class C and was met with the reply "....Ah, you mean Metropolitan Class D".
Interestingly, when I asked for directions to where in the Documents I might find a definition of this Metro Class D (since I had been unable to find it for myself), he was unable to provide them and I have not yet met anyone who can show me where it is defined.
I am aware that Metro Class D has become a "modern" name for a mix of Class D and GAAP procedures, but it's a bit hard to teach students about something that isn't defined in any of the documents. Is this just another case of "making it up as we go" to cover system inadequacies?

[Awol57]

To my knowledge it's simply an internal Airservices reference. The procedures are as detailed in AIP for Class D operations. Internally it's referenced differently due to a non metro D usually have procedural approach attached to it. Shouldn't make any difference to pilots though.

[Jack Ranga]

I've recently flown in & out of a few Class D aerodromes for the first time. You download the booklet to check the procedures before 'aviating' there. 20 to 30 pages of procedures. I shake my head and wonder how any newbie is expected to comply with the bureaucratic & red tape filled process it is to depart or arrive at a control zone.

'Unfamiliar, read the guide and have no clue what you want from me'

[Awol57]

I haven't read the guide recently, but we do try to make it as easy as possible. Readbacks are almost always where we have issues and that isn't a Class D problem.

[ravan]

That's the problem Awol57. It shouldn't be "to my knowledge..." or to anyone else's knowledge.
If it was clearly defined and simply explained in the documents then everyone would have less trouble, surely.

[Sunfish]

There is no feeling of terror quite like being in the circuit at YMMB with seven other aircraft plus Three helicopters, when you hear announcements from Brighton, GMH and Carrum that more are inbound.

And everyone but me and ATC are speaking broken, halting, English.

Please tell your students to learn the procedures. One mid air was enough.

[Creampuff]

‘Metro D’ is the classification that dare not speak its name: GAAP. All the old GAAP aerodromes were effectively ERSA’d back to GAAP a while ago.

[Jack Ranga]

'Are you familiar with the St Kilda departure?'

'Negative, I'm never flown here before, I'm from Melbourne, I've read the 30 page guide but I can't see St Kilda from the run up bay. How about we save a bit of time and you submit the ESIR now? How about I depart the the zone on upwind? (crosswind, downwind, overhead)

Nah, lets complicate the fark out of it, employ a 30 member team to educate pilots on how to read a 30 page guide on how to depart a control zone. Another 10 member team to prosecute those who fark it up.

[Awol57]

Ravan, what document refers to Metro D. I just had a look at the CASA website and AIP and can find zero reference to Metro D, only Class D airspace.

Unfortunately all aerodromes will have their differences, due terrain, surrounding airspace etc, which is the whole point of ERSA. I know I will just be shot down so I'll leave it it that.

[Creampuff]

Errrm, isn't that precisely ravan's point?

[Awol57]

My mistake, I thought he meant the actual Class D procedures not aerodrome specific tracking

[ravan]

Awol57, that indeed was my point. There are no published procedures specifically for "Metro" Class D, yet an Airservices representative suggested to me that it was a separate airspace category "different" from "Normal" Class D.

[Awol57]

Ok. We definitely reference it internally but it's purely an admin thing. Class D is class D. There were some overall changes made during the GAAP to D changes but the actual procedures are the same everywhere.

There was potentially some misspoken moments during the transition and just after but the procedures are the same throughout. Obviously there are some local variations but the basics are as per AIP.

[Creampuff]

Then why is there a term "Metro D"? What possible use could it have internally?

[alphacentauri]

For the same reason people use the term externally, so that everybody knows we are talking about the old GAAP aerodromes.


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[Awol57]

Some differences in coord is all I can think of off the top of my head. I'll have a look tomorrow and see if it's written anywhere if I remember. But basically what alphacenturi said

[mcgrath50]

Departure reports (or any type of estimate) aren't usually done at "Metro Class D" especially for VFR flights. I can't find where it gives this exception in the AIP at this hour but I'm sure AWOL and the other country Class D controllers can always pick when a pilot has just come out from a Metro Class D and forgets his estimates!

[Creampuff]

Alpha, you left off a bit:

For the same reason people use the term externally, so that everybody knows we are talking about the old GAAP aerodromes where the procedures are different from D aerodromes.

The procedures at the old GAAP aerodromes are the old GAAP.

That’s why there has to be a term to distiguish them from D aerodromes, where the procedures are for Class D.

[Creampuff]

Bingo.

The reason for the change was political not practical.

The practicalities were what resulted in GAAP, and the practicalities haven’t changed. So it’s D in name only, and even that name has evolved to “Metro D” for reasons of ….. practicality.

[Ted D Bear]

"There were some overall changes made during the GAAP to D changes but the actual procedures are the same everywhere."

So why do IFR flights give departure reports at non-metro Class D's but not at metro ones?